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News :: Peace
CU Women Bare Witness For Peace.	Current rating: 0
by Marg Kosal Email: nerdgirl (at) scs.uiuc.edu (unverified!) Phone: 217.352.7714	26 Jan 2003
Champaign-Urbana, IL - 26 January 2003 - A group of women from central Illinois felt compelled to use the shock of their naked bodies to send a message to the world that the women of America's heartland oppose a US-led war against Iraq. Rather than staying warm at home, they went out into below-freezing temperatures to be vulnerable for peace. Lying on a freshly snow-covered ground with sub-zero wind chills, they linked together to form the word "PEACE."
CU Women Bare Witness For Peace Photo credit: Benjamin Grosser. This photo marks the 9th photo contribution in a spontaneous series that began as a pro-peace demonstration staged on November 12th by a Baring Witness group from Marin County California. On that first action, 46 women posed naked in the word "PEACE", a second event grew to 96 women in late December and was accompanied by a concurrent group of 24 men who also staged a pro-peace protest by forming a peace symbol with their naked bodies. This startling form of protest has inspired people all over the world to stage similar protests against war. From Salt Lake City, Utah to McCurdo Station, Antarctica and from Gainesville, Florida to East Sussex, England - the international spelling bee is spelling out the pro-peace message with their bodies. PEACE - it's such a simple word, but it has so many connotations in the current political climate. "You're either with us or against us" has become national rhetoric, and so, it takes a certain amount of courage to speak out against war these days. For a group of middle-American scientists, teachers, home-makers, librarians, journalists, entrepreneurs, mothers and students ranging in age from 20-62 to act out publicly, stripped of clothing in the winter cold takes even more courage. More information on Baring Witness available at http://www.baringwitness.org.

Comments

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by ??? (No verified email address)	Current rating: 10 26 Jan 2003
What a stunning image! Real committment, courage, and bravery!

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by TT (No verified email address)	Current rating: 6 26 Jan 2003
I agree! I think these are some of the same women who stand on the front lines of the fight to end gun violence. Kudos to you all!

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by JC AKA DAN Disinfo (No verified email address)	Current rating: 10 26 Jan 2003
Thanks to being out in the cold, these women now have a weakened immune system and will be among the first to succumb to Saddam's biological weapons.

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by Jeff Melton redgreen (nospam) kiva.net (unverified)	Current rating: 6 27 Jan 2003
I can't help but notice that out of the ten or so of these protests that I've seen publicity about, only one of them involved men, and not once have I seen any comment about their all-female character from either the journalists reporting them or the participants. Personally, I have no problem with nudity or nude protests per se, but I wonder whether you or other groups of women who have done this have thought about the possibility that by staging all-female nude protests, you are unwittingly reinforcing the notion that women are just objects, that they exist merely for the sensual pleasure of men? Wouldn't you draw just as much attention with co-ed protests, or a series of protests that involved all-male as well as all-female "strippers for peace"?

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by Marg nerdgirl (at) scs.uiuc.edu (unverified)	Current rating: 6 27 Jan 2003
Kiva - An interesting point ... although there have been at least 2 all male baring witness events, in addition to the mixed sex one in East Sussex. The power in the action is directly connected to the nakedness -- being exposed to bare witness for Peace. It is a tangible subversion of the gendered construction of womyn's bodies -- the concept that naked bodies 'should' be limited to the private sphere. The action is a demonstrated willingness to risk the "shame" that is associated with nakedness for womenn. It is a tangible statement of commitment to and a willingness to risk for Peace (... rather than following the dominant societal mores.) As one participant wrote: "There's also something appeallingly hardcore about women who are willing to get naked in January in Illinois for peace." Being naked on a private beach in the Bahamas is easy. The prospect of US led war is so horrifying that women are willing to risk being exposed in the brutal cold!!!

Self-exploitation Much?
by 'Becca (No verified email address)	Current rating: -4 27 Jan 2003
I wonder why these are WOMEN posing naked. No, I don't, really. I guess some "progressive" women are all too happy to use their own sexual exploitation to further other causes. Well, sisters, when I see nude bodies in the snow, I think of rape victims, not strong women. I see women who are vessels for a message, not women who stand in their own right. I see women who are buying into the idea that the only way women can change things is to exploit and degrade their own sexuality. Really, do you think pro-war men/lesbians are going to change their mind cause of your naked flesh? Doubt it. Maybe some U.S. soldiers will think of you next time they rape a woman in an "occupied land." Because, by defining yourself as one without nonsexual value, you are defining all of us that way. Progress isn't going to be complete until women's rights are included in the anti-racist/anti-war/etc. movements as an integral part rather than a flashy accessory.

Self-exploitation Much?
by 'Becca (No verified email address)	Current rating: 1 27 Jan 2003
I wonder why these are WOMEN posing naked. No, I don't, really. I guess some "progressive" women are all too happy to use their own sexual exploitation to further other causes. Well, sisters, when I see nude bodies in the snow, I think of rape victims, not strong women. I see women who are vessels for a message, not women who stand in their own right. I see women who are buying into the idea that the only way women can change things is to exploit and degrade their own sexuality. Really, do you think pro-war men/lesbians are going to change their mind cause of your naked flesh? Doubt it. Maybe some U.S. soldiers will think of you next time they rape a woman in an "occupied land." Because, by defining yourself as one without nonsexual value, you are defining all of us that way. Progress isn't going to be complete until women's rights are included in the anti-racist/anti-war/etc. movements as an integral part rather than a flashy accessory.

All We Are Saying...
by qwerty (No verified email address)	Current rating: 4 27 Jan 2003
...is give Nair a chance. Yeesh.

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by ? (No verified email address)	Current rating: 1 27 Jan 2003 Modified: 11:13:31 AM
"when I see nude bodies in the snow, I think of rape victims, not strong women" Why victims? If they were men would you automatically equate what they are doing with sex or victimhood? That said, your opinions and some points are well-taken and respected. Any guys out there game? Peace.

All I See
by some guy (No verified email address)	Current rating: 6 27 Jan 2003 Modified: 11:22:35 AM
All I see are strong, brave women, wanting to make a point about the horrible vulnerability that war causes any person. They certainly demonstrate a dedication to exposing the fundamental inhumanity of violence in a way I'm currently unwilling to do -- the fact that it has been so damn cold lately underlies the unwavering dedication of the participants to peace. The equation of rape with nakedness by one commenter is a little over the top and makes the unpleasant, and fundamentally wrong, connection that rape is somehow closely tied to how much, or how little, a women chooses to bare of her body. Putting on an ideological stairjacket about nudity like that is just as disturbing as the thought by a rapist that he somehow has a right to exploit a woman's body simply because it arouses him to violence.

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by a reader (No verified email address)	Current rating: 5 27 Jan 2003
It isn't as if this image is presented in a pornographic or erotic way. Why the automatic association of this action with some use of sexual exploitation? This isn't about sex. Are we supposed to accept being sexual objects simlpy because we take our clothes off? Feminist men should see the fact that women are doing this more than men as a challenge. If women can do it, so can men. Even the scales, and end these accusations that this is about the sexual objectification of women. Sure it may not end war, but it's good clean fun for those who have fun doing it. I'm sure this was a bonding experience for the women who did it and their solidarity and trust in other direct actions will be improved by this experience. Sometimes activists just have to have fun together. Sometimes people just want to express themselves creatively. It doesn't always end war but that doesn't invalidate it's importance. Chill out...these women sure did.

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by Jeff Melton redgreen (nospam) kiva.net (unverified)	Current rating: 3 27 Jan 2003 Modified: 03:45:13 PM
Okay, so there's been more than one protest that involved men. It's still the case that the overwhelming majority have been all-female. And this isn't the first occasion when people have disrobed as part of a political protest, and it's almost always women, and very rarely men. At Bush's inauguration, there were women who disrobed in protest. At globalization protests in DC, there were semi-nude female protestors. Go to the Web site for PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) and you'll find that lots of their protests involve nude (or nearly nude or implied nude) women bearing messages like "I'd rather go naked than wear fur." It's a little too consistent a pattern for it to be just coincidence, yet few people even seem to notice, let alone consider it problematic. Concerning why these protests get people's attention, come on, clearly it isn't ONLY that nudity is shocking and, to some people, shameful. It's also got a lot to do with the fact that people get turned on when they see attractive people of whichever sex they're attracted to naked. Is advertising involving scantily-clothed women so ubiquitous because of its shock value? Are strip bars so popular primarily because it's shocking to see nude or topless women? Of course not! And I would submit to you that the fact that it's almost always women who are depicted wearing little clothing in advertising, and the fact that strip bars almost always feature exclusively female strippers, are quite related to the fact that disrobing as a form of political protest is largely confined to women. All these things have something to do with the fact that we live in a sexist society where the objectification of women is accepted or encouraged. And, to respond to the last person's comments, yeah, it's true that more men COULD choose to strip in protest of war and that if that DID happen, then the issue I've raised would no longer be an issue. But my guess is that this won't happen. Sure, it takes some courage and dedication to lie buck-naked in the snow for peace and have your picture plastered all over the Internet. But so does, say, blockading a harbor where warships are anchored as Greenpeace is doing right now. So does refusing to register for the draft. So does even writing a letter to the editor. So does going to Iraq to serve as a "human shield." All of these are courageous acts (and some anti-war acts require more courage than either I or, I would imagine, any of the women who posed nude in the snow in Urbana can muster right now). So the question remains: Why are women so much more likely to choose this particular gutsy act as a form of political protest? Shouldn't we at least think about that?

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by Jeff Melton redgreen (nospam) kiva.net (unverified)	Current rating: 3 27 Jan 2003 Modified: 04:01:01 PM
Okay, so there's been more than one protest that involved men. It's still the case that the overwhelming majority have been all-female. And this isn't the first occasion when people have disrobed as part of a political protest, and it's almost always women, and very rarely men. At Bush's inauguration, there were women who disrobed in protest. At globalization protests in DC, there were semi-nude female protestors. Go to the Web site for PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) and you'll find that lots of their protests involve nude (or nearly nude or implied nude) women bearing messages like "I'd rather go naked than wear fur." It's a little too consistent a pattern for it to be just coincidence, yet few people even seem to notice, let alone consider it problematic. Concerning why these protests get people's attention, come on, clearly it isn't ONLY that nudity is shocking and, to some people, shameful. It's also got a lot to do with the fact that people get turned on when they see attractive people of whichever sex they're attracted to naked. Is advertising involving scantily-clothed women so ubiquitous because of its shock value? Are strip bars so popular primarily because it's shocking to see nude or topless women? Of course not! And I would submit to you that the fact that it's almost always women who are depicted wearing little clothing in advertising, and the fact that strip bars almost always feature exclusively female strippers, are quite related to the fact that disrobing as a form of political protest is largely confined to women. All these things have something to do with the fact that we live in a sexist society where the objectification of women is accepted or encouraged. And, to respond to the last person's comments, yeah, it's true that more men COULD choose to strip in protest of war and that if that DID happen, then the issue I've raised would no longer be an issue. But my guess is that this won't happen. Sure, it takes some courage and dedication to lie buck-naked in the snow for peace and have your picture plastered all over the Internet. But so does, say, blockading a harbor where warships are anchored as Greenpeace is doing right now. So does refusing to register for the draft. So does even writing a letter to the editor. So does going to Iraq to serve as a "human shield." All of these are courageous acts (and some anti-war acts require more courage than either I or, I would imagine, any of the women who posed nude in the snow in Urbana can muster right now). So the question remains: Why are women so much more likely to choose this particular gutsy act as a form of political protest? Shouldn't we at least think about that?

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by - (No verified email address)	Current rating: 3 27 Jan 2003 Modified: 04:05:08 PM
"All these things have something to do with the fact that we live in a sexist society where the objectification of women is accepted or encouraged." Yes, that's true. But should every woman then supress her natural expression because it might perpetuate objectification depending upon the perspectives, attitudes, audience, projections, circumstances, relationships, etc., of a remarkably diverse society? "Why are women so much more likely to choose this particular gutsy act as a form of political protest?" Because they're gutsy and it gets more airplay than many other acts? Don't know, just a thought.

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by 'Becca (No verified email address)	Current rating: 9 27 Jan 2003 Modified: 07:06:22 PM
"It isn't as if this image is presented in a pornographic or erotic way. Why the automatic association of this action with some use of sexual exploitation? This isn't about sex. Are we supposed to accept being sexual objects simlpy because we take our clothes off? " You can already see the objectification going on in poster's comments about "give Nair a chance" and in the press coverage of the event (for instance, an article in Common Dreams about the SF Baring Witness went into expository detail about the women washing one another's bodies afterwards, and then gave a tiny aside to the men who had done the same.) Why would these women do this if they weren't expecting such objectification to occur? Sure it's a way to get media attention. So...other sexist ways to get media attention might include Playmates for Peace ala PETA. Beaver shots symbolizing womens' "free expression," right? Or what about Lap Dancers for peace making visits to all our representatives? Really, wouldn't it be more worthwhile to do something flashy that didn't involve nudity? Nudity itself really isn't very shocking. I need only turn on my television to view women in barely-there bikinis with visible nipples trying to sell me something. And it's not an issue of nudity=exploitation. As long as the patriarchy continues, female nudity is going to be viewed sexually by most het men. I have yet to see any argument that these women are not, in fact, exploiting (i.e., "using") their bodies as their mode of speaking. If they weren't there wouldn't be much point in the demos. I'm sorry if this sounds hostile. But in every major movement of the past century womens' needs have been subordinated (usually by women themselves) to the "big" picture. I hope some of these women will think about that before they strip next time.

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by 'Becca (No verified email address)	Current rating: 6 27 Jan 2003
"Why victims? If they were men would you automatically equate what they are doing with sex or victimhood? " If both sexes were doing it equally, I wouldn't think twice about it. If men were doing this in a matriarchal culture, however, I would ask the same questions. But this kind of nude protest seems largely limited to women...so it seems linked to womens' willingness to use their bodies (rather than words or actions) to "sell" an idea. What do you think...why don't more men do this? In peace, 'Becca

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by ? (No verified email address)	Current rating: 5 27 Jan 2003 Modified: 08:40:34 PM
"So...other sexist ways to get media attention might include Playmates for Peace ala PETA. Beaver shots symbolizing womens' "free expression," right? Or what about Lap Dancers for peace making visits to all our representatives?" I agree. I don't like the PETA ads, but the ones that I've seen have been different from what I saw in the photograph above. I just don't like to see an inherent equation made between the beautiful human body or sensual expression with rape or sexism, or ?beaver shots for free expression?. I think that has a tendency to objectify women. Also, as a woman, I don't like to be viewed as a victim if I am not. Unfortunately, yes, there does exist a great deal of sexism in society through pornography and other means. I don't think they are all on the same level. The Nair statement was stupid [sorry whoever]. But I would encourage that person to have a look in the mirror and I don't want to lose the nudes in the museums because someone might make a stupid comment. Who doesn't make stupid comments sometimes? I believe these women probably had the best of intentions and that it was probably a wonderful experience. This kind of action invariably would result in more airplay more than many things that people do for the same purpose, so more people would know about it. I wouldn't do this, but I respect them for doing what they wanted to do. If some men want to do it, that would be even better. Respectfully, and in peace.

Gazoo Coverage
by Clint clint (nospam) ucimc.org (verified)	Current rating: 0 28 Jan 2003
http://www.news-gazette.com/story.cfm?Number=13142

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by alex (No verified email address)	Current rating: 3 28 Jan 2003
interesting commentary on patriarchy and such on the baring witness.org site (near bottom)-- they talk about using 'seduction' to get the interest of men in this patriarchal society, which implies that this is a form of protest at least initially envisioned exclusively for women... maybe different groups have different motivations, but i wonder how this will affect the debate...

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by The Watcher (No verified email address)	Current rating: -1 28 Jan 2003 Modified: 10:08:49 AM
All you people who can't figure out why these protests are aligned towards use of the power of women, and why they work as such a reliable substitute for violent protest tactics, need to go read _Lysistrata_. It never hurts to check out the ancient classics, you know. ;)

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by Arjuna tridentact (nospam) yahoo.com (verified)	Current rating: 0 28 Jan 2003
They go to any lengths to make their protests known, seen and read. A clever idea, more men should participate or are they less gutsy.

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by Jeff Melton redgreen (nospam) kiva.net (unverified)	Current rating: 4 28 Jan 2003 Modified: 03:02:24 PM
"All you people who can't figure out why these protests are aligned towards use of the power of women, and why they work as such a reliable substitute for violent protest tactics, need to go read _Lysistrata_. It never hurts to check out the ancient classics, you know. ;)" First of all, other than by right-wing anti-abortion nuts and anti-government nuts (e.g., Timothy McVeigh), violent protest tactics haven't been used in this country since the 1970s, unless you consider property damage to be violence. Even property damage is quite rare compared to most other forms of protest. As for whether "stripping for peace" is an effective protest tactic or not, I don't really know, but you haven't provided any evidence that it is. The peace movement is doing just fine as it is, as evidenced by the huge marches in DC and San Francisco and the countless smaller protests in cities all over the country on Jan. 18. I see no reason to think that women need to take off their clothes to be effective advocates for peace; indeed, not only is it preferable but it may well be more effective if they use their voices instead of their bodies. That's how the movement against this war got to where it is, by people just talking to friends, neighbors, and strangers about the issues involved, attending protests, writing letters, etc. The only example of this form of protest with undeniably positive results that comes to mind is the Nigerian women's protest against oil company officials last year. In that case the women threatened to disrobe not to use their bodies in a sexual way (as is at least in part the case with the current wave of protests), but because in the particular culture where the protest took place it is considered extremely shameful for men to view women's nude bodies in public. The protests ALSO involved women physically occupying the oil plants. Business as usual at Chevron/Texaco in Nigeria was brought to a complete standstill as a result of these protests. That's what we need to focus on more and more here now -- not only do we need to keep building the movement against the war and bringing more and more people into it (and I'm not sure whether the "nude peace" protests here do that or not), we need to do what we can to disrupt Bush & Co's plans. During Vietnam there was not only a significant amount of civil disobedience in the general population, but people in the military stopped obeying orders, deserted, refused to report for duty in the first place, etc. That's the sort of thing that can stop this war -- along with protest becoming so widespread and the heat on our legislators' feet so intense that they will start to believe en masse that they CANNOT keep supporting this war and get re-elected. As for Lysistrata, the following review sums it up better than I could: "The ancient Greek comedy Lysistrata draws most of its humor from creating caricatures of masculine and feminine gender roles. Characters in the play are either hyper-feminized, hyper-masculinized, or painted as oddities by mismatching their gendered behavior and sex. Women experience the worst of the stereotyping by Aristophanes. After reading the play, one comes away with a view of women as masters of sexual manipulation, and little else- save the housework they do for their husbands. Lysistrata, the heroine of the play, may be the only exception to this limited view of women. She is the one who concocts the scheme of withholding sex from men until they end the war. This demonstrates some intellect on her part. Yet, Lysistrata reinforces the stereotypical gender role of women in her explanation of her plan. As she tells her cohort Kalonike, "...[these] are just the very things I count on to save us � wicked saffron gowns, perfumes and pumps and rouge and sheer transparent frocks." Notice that she does not mention counting on the solidarity, organization, intellect, or determination of her fellow women to accomplish her task, but the hyper-feminization of their appearance. Lysistrata, by emphasizing the appearance of women as the savior of her plan, elevates it to a higher importance than other factors that may be involved. It does nothing to dispute the view that women�s talents are (basically) limited to sexual manipulation. The women who cooperate with Lysistrata do nothing to dispute this stereotype, either. When they first learn of Lysistrata�s intentions, they refuse to participate. Kalonike exclaims in response, "Anything else you like, anything! If I must I�ll gladly walk through fire. That, rather than the prick!" While the statement cannot be taken literally, it still indicates strong opposition to living without sexual relations. This suggests that women find joy in nothing but sex. Stretching the quote even farther, it hints that women have talent for nothing else in life. For if they were truly talented at something else, it seems as if they would find some joy in putting their skills to work. Even when the events of the play afford Aristophanes the opportunity to develop the women as more than two-dimensional caricatures, he does not. Ambassadors come to Lysistrata willing to negotiate peace. Instead of relying solely on her ability to communicate, she uses the naked woman HARMONY to tempt the men into a peace agreement. Readers never get an opportunity to see Lysistrata�s talents- her manipulative use of sexuality in always in operation. While Lysistrata seems to have been a great comedy to the ancient Greeks, and is still held as a fine piece of theatre today, it leaves much to be desired in its portrayal of women. Unfortunately, Aristophanes died more than two millennia ago, and cannot comment on his work in light of the feminist movement." http://www.epinions.com/book-review-28C3-128CBE3C-39C83712-prod4

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by 'Becca (No verified email address)	Current rating: 6 28 Jan 2003 Modified: 03:20:21 PM
I agree with an earlier poster's comments about not wanting all nudity/sexuality to equal victimhood. I think the issue of using one's sexuality to sell a message (rather than the eloquent words and minds these women no doubt have and the eloquent actions they could take) is the problem. As someone else points out, the baringwitness.org talks about "seducing...the patriarchy into partnership." To me, this is placing a sad limit on the forms of protest women can do. Another poster says, "All you people who can't figure out why these protests are aligned towards use of the power of women, and why they work as such a reliable substitute for violent protest tactics, need to go read _Lysistrata_. It never hurts to check out the ancient classics, you know..." I have read LYSISTRATA, thanks, and it is hardly a model for feminist or empowering action. It's basically a Greek male's fantasy about taunting women using what (apparently) is their only tool to stop war: the withholding of sexual intercourse. In other words, if you want to make a difference, shut up and spread (or close) your legs. Women have so many other tools available to us. We are as intelligent, more physically durable (and in some cases as physically strong as) men. If we want to use our bodies, we can blockade the ports; we can protest; we can cross the barricades; we can help one another physically fight off rapists and abusers. Thinking that one's power is limited to one's genitals or sexuality does not seem empowering to me... Moreover, do you think that if Laura stopped shagging George, or Lynne stopped sleeping with Dick, that the war would stop? Pretty far from realistic. Women are stronger (and more than) our sexuality. That doesn't mean our sexuality is "unimportant," but that it's important for ITSELF, and does not exist purely to please/taunt/control men.

WAY Too Much Handwringing Going On
by some guy (No verified email address)	Current rating: 0 28 Jan 2003 Modified: 04:31:04 PM
Becca says that women's sexuality "does not exist purely to please/taunt/control men." Yet that seems to be the operative assumption when she insists on the view that women's nakedness is the main message here, rather than peace. This discussion is going much the way that the silliness associated with the overblown issue of the WWP and the involvement of the rest of the peace movement in demonstrations that the WWP originally initieated, but which are far bigger than anything the WWP could have organized itself. (see http://www.ucimc.org/newswire/display/8982/index.php) Insisting that the views of men (or the WWP) are far more important than they really are in connection to what went on by "baring witness" (or the peace demos, in the case of the WWP) gives the token anatgonist far more importance than is really the case (men, in the case of "baring" and the demos , in the case of the WWP.) It seems that the WWP hardly has a monopoly on Stalinism among prgressives, considering the efforts some make in telling others how they should think. Perhaps some of us need to take a couple of deep breaths and consider, as was said about the WWP tempest in a tea pot, that "... if your coalition doesn't contain some whom you're uncomfortable with, it's not broad enough..." (by that very prescient woman, bell hooks.) And if you still think you criticisms are far more important than the point of the protest, considering the considerable time and effort you seem to be expending on them, then maybe you all will tell us what YOU have planned to call attention to the need for peace in what is likley to soon be a time of war?

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by a grateful woman (No verified email address)	Current rating: 3 28 Jan 2003 Modified: 05:09:38 PM
OK...a few points 1. These women chose to do this action. No one forced them or coerced them. It was their choice. I respect that. To equate nudity or the nude female body with violence, degradation, and exploitation is a little heavy-handed. I don't like the use women's bodies for financial gain in the mass media, but I also don't believe that every instance of a naked body fits this definition. The image of a naked woman's body is not always bad---unless you are John Ashcroft, then perhaps the image of a naked woman's body may drive you insane. (i.e. the giant statue he had covered in D.C. because a breast was exposed) These women seem to have acknowledged the power of nakedness and attempted to harness that power to spread a message: PEACE. I think perhaps nakedness is SO powerful that for some individuals it is too difficult to separate the bad from the good. I don't see my body as bad. I can see how it has been used, abused, neglected, or otherwise maltreated as bad, but simply equating nude women with sexual violence is a little over the top. 2. This action has achieved its goal, I think. It has been reported in the N-G (which doesn't report on protests b/c they are not news---don't tell them that this was a protest, it was an ACTION), on the radio and tv. Many other actions in the area have not received such coverage. In addition, I have not seen so many posts to an article on the UCIMC wire in a long time. 3. Some commenters have decried these women as wasting their time or have described this action as pointless exercise. I would put forth the idea that this is a matter of opinion, not fact. Some might say that any form of protest (picketing, financial support withdrawal, letter-writing, etc.) are wastes of time. I would also like to point out that to assume that these women are not involved in other actions is not based in fact. I would assume the opposite---only a hard-core progressive anti-war woman would participate in this type of action. Of course, this assumption isn't based in any fact either.... I guess I have to say that I don't see women exploiting themselves. I see strong, beautiful women following their consciences. I wish more people would follow their consciences as well.

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by ??? (No verified email address)	Current rating: 0 28 Jan 2003
"Well, sisters, when I see nude bodies in the snow, I think of rape victims, not strong women...." That is really sad. "I see women who are buying into the idea that the only way women can change things is to exploit and degrade their own sexuality." Pretty grand and baseless assumption. I see women trying to change that image. Perhaps they should have worn burkas, hmmmm?

What It Means To Me
by Joe Futrelle futrelle (nospam) shout.net (unverified)	Current rating: 3 28 Jan 2003 Modified: 06:00:58 PM
Clothes are (obviously) cultural constructs, and so therefore is nakedness. The metaphor is that clothes are protection, and nakedness is vulnerability. We are quick to assume that naked people are vulnerable because it fits the metaphor. Naked people demonstrating against war fits the metaphor badly, if at all. Which is the point. They demonstrate solidarity with the vulnerable but display remarkable organization and courage, hinting at the organization and courage we are all capable of, no matter how vulnerable we may feel. I don't read the image as pornographic. Instead of illustrating sexual fantasies for consumers, it documents real collective action. Sure, you can find or invent a sexual fantasy and claim that the picture illustrates it, but that is possible with any image (extreme examples can be found in J. G. Ballard).

Language
by ? (No verified email address)	Current rating: 0 28 Jan 2003 Modified: 06:59:20 PM
The most objectifying language in this discussion has been entered into the media and public forum by the person who is most against this action for peace: rape victims vessels accessory Playmates Beaver Lap Dancers barely-there bikinis with visible nipples shut up and spread (or close) your legs shagging

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by intelligent naked woman (No verified email address)	Current rating: 25 28 Jan 2003 Modified: 09:49:00 PM
"I hope some of these women will think about that before they strip next time." Guess what? We did. I'm sure I've read much of the theory you have about these issues, and this was my (highly informed) choice. Incidentally, you'll notice that there's not a Playboy model in the bunch. That in itself is a rare sight and makes a certain statement about being a real live woman in this wretched society. Hostility or no hostility, I resent the implication that I didn't think. I've been thinking about these kinds of issues for years, and I chose this means of expression knowing that, in a complex world, such an unusual act will generate all kinds of responses. You are free to respond away, but don't for a second think that I didn't fully examine the possible consequences, including reactions such as yours. I could go on and on giving ways that I thought and reasons I chose this action, but I don't think it would create a new discussion and so I choose not to do so. However, I hope by now you know that I did think about this before doing it. You may not be able to understand my choice, but don't assume I'm ignorant. --intelligent naked woman

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by Genterless (No verified email address)	Current rating: 3 28 Jan 2003 Modified: 29 Jan 2003
So, looks like there two major categories of comments generated by this news story. One set of comments is gravitating toward the question, "which gender is more courageous, or brave." Is it the womyn who bared all for peace or is the men who do whatever men do. The other set of comments gravitates towards the question "But is it not nudity of any kind a form of exploitation of womyn and does it not encourage the outright dehumanization of womyn?" Both sets of comments make sense only if we treat the commentaries as something other than what these brave womyn attempted to tell the rest of the world and our corrupt political leaders: No more war!! War solves no problems, and its scares can never be healed, no matter how much money and tears are poured to do that. And so, that brings about new questions and frames to understand the act of baring it all for peace: To me, such a brave act is an indication of the deepening gap between government and the governed. It is also an indication of a governemnt trying to salvage any last ounce of legitimacy so it can claim that the war it is about to embark upon is an act of protecting the public interest and public good. I am not convinced that this government is a legitimate government. Therefore, if it takes "baring it all" to tell so to the corrupt minds and souls of our government leaders, so be it. Let's get a few hunderd thousands of womyn to bare it all for peace in DC, of all places! Kudos, to the brave women of Champaign-Urbana who dared to make a difference! And may peace prevail!

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by Jacqueline Enstrom-Waters jq (nospam) wildhunt.org (verified)	Current rating: 8 29 Jan 2003 Modified: 07:03:24 AM
Kudos to the brave women who bared all to make an attention-getting statement about peace. Their bravery was not only in the act of baring their bodies, but even more so in baring themselves to the very sort of critisism seen here. Not only have they made a statement and gotten news coverage for an anti-war action in the local mainstream media; they have stimulated thought, debate and active conversation. I'd like to stay out of the debate, just put in those positive words and leave it at that, but I feel compelled to say the following: I reject any blanket statement that to share the image of my naked body, as a woman, is to present myself as a victim, to bring up ghosts of rape, etc. I was not one of the women out in the snow that day, but only because I didn't know about it. My body is an important part of who I am and it is no more victimizing for me to chose to use my body to gain attention for my beliefs than it is for me to use my voice to do the same - both are mine, both are my choice to use, both acts, if done, an impowered act. To say that female nakedness is to be equated with powerlessness and victimhood debases women and their bodies, to tell us that we cannot share our bodies this way without being victims is to insult the intelligence of women. To the women who took part in this action, bravo. Not only was it an important, attention-directing act, it is also a beautiful piece of art. The female form is beautiful! Its only natural that it attracts our attention and that we want to look at it. I also reject that any sexual response to such an image is bad - its natural! It wasn't meant as a sexual image, but if it creates such a momentary reaction in any man or woman, that does not make them a victimizer or an objectifier. It makes them human.

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by GP (No verified email address)	Current rating: -7 29 Jan 2003 Modified: 09:35:05 AM
Seems to be a lot of interesting commentary here! LOL In seeing it asked why men don't participate in such acts as often, I dare suggest it's because most men do not pursue nakedness with each other..in fact they tend to avoid such. Given both the opposition and support shown to the women expressing themselves as such, it really boils down to one question for me: What exactly is their statement? Honestly, it's nothing but a cute attention grabber. It's completely meaningless and honorless, but it was probably a lot of giddy fun for them to do. Got to give them a pat on the ...errr... back for having so much spirit! But it has no deeper effect what-so-ever and carries no factual statements of why war should be avoided. I'm guessing the ladies would have found a reason to attend Frostbite Beach, with or without a political concern in mind. I'll be sure and say hello to those I recognize, next time I see 'em! -GP

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by RF raiafink (nospam) uiuc.edu (unverified)	Current rating: 8 29 Jan 2003 Modified: 10:58:03 AM
to GP I dare you to approach me on the street because you recognize my body after all this wack posturing and mock support you gave us! Of all the negative feedback, yours is the slimiest since you see fit to judge our personal characters and motivations as participants rather than offer a constructive note on why or why not you think this particular method is effective. And you cloaked those judgements in demeaning chauvenist language, to boot. Good one. So what exactly is our statement? We spelled it out for you, and you don't even have to mentally undress us this time. I'll assume you do know what our statement is and just couldn't resist taking the low road this time. -RF

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by babs (No verified email address)	Current rating: 5 29 Jan 2003 Modified: 11:22:23 AM
I had three reactions to this, all positive: first was "WOW!" which was followed by "I think I know half those people," which then made me say, "Holy Fucking Christ, its cold out there!" Needless to say, it was a wonderful surprise to see on a Sunday evening. This is exactly the kind of action we need to get the attention of an administration whose Attorney General can't handle centuries-old partially nude art. This type of protest makes it very difficult to interpret the naked form simply as a sex object; one way to change perceptions about women as sex objects is to do something that defies that idea, and to work together to do so. When women join together, they are never meek, even if they decide to spell out the word "peace" in the buff in the snow. The people I know would think about it beforehand; assuming they wouldn't is an insult to them. I'm glad I know women who have the guts to do something this cool.

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by paul pvawood (nospam) soltec.net (unverified)	Current rating: 0 29 Jan 2003
very impressive display, espeically considering the murderous cold. i think more newspapers and TV stations would have aired the air if all the women had lain on their sides rather than some who were on their backs. it would have been more abstract that way. but probably less shock value, i have to admit

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by pirate (No verified email address)	Current rating: 3 29 Jan 2003
how bout coed naked peace? why must it be either men or women? and what about the rest of us? ;-) i give all the womyn who spelled out peace in the snow props. one might think not of the "effect" of the protest but of the desired consequences. some have happened already...

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by jeanette (No verified email address)	Current rating: 0 30 Jan 2003 Modified: 12:54:14 PM
Wow. I'm the gal who's been walking across America alone for nearly two years, and my post only recieved one comment. Perhaps I should take Hunter S. Thompson's advice and walk naked!

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by jeanette (No verified email address)	Current rating: 0 30 Jan 2003 Modified: 12:57:45 PM
Wow. I'm the gal who's been walking across America alone for nearly two years, and my post only recieved one comment. Perhaps I should take Hunter S. Thompson's advice and walk naked!

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by ML (No verified email address)	Current rating: 0 30 Jan 2003
Jeanette, Don't let the lack of comments on the story about your project get you down. It's not nearly as, well, controversial among peace advocates ;>) We were honored to have you as a guest at our IMC and in our community. You did get a really good article in the News-Gazette today and it included a picture, which the women of Baring Witness didn't get in the article that the N-G did about that. Your walk and visit is having an impact. I hope people come out to meet Jeanette at the IMC Friday, Jan. 31 from 1 to 3pm and write grievances for you to take to Bush.

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by Jeff Melton redgreen (nospam) kiva.net (unverified)	Current rating: 3 31 Jan 2003
Now, here's the kind of nude protest I can support (see text below, from the main Indymedia site). There was actually a point to the protestors being naked (to defend people's right to bathe nude), rather than a visual image of naked women being used to "sell" an idea (peace) which has nothing to do with female nudity. I was glad to see the post about the Urbana City Council meeting being swamped with hundreds of folks supporting the Council's anti-war resolution. Surely hundreds of people speaking their minds intelligently about the issue will have more impact than a couple dozen women taking their clothes off. WSF Ends With Brutal Police Repression Police did what police do best when they violently attacked protesters and bystanders on the last day of the World Social Forum. It started when a Mapuche woman who was attending the WSF and staying at the international youth camp was arrested with charges of "obscene acts" for bathing nude in a river. Activists saw this and organized over 400 people to protest by nonviolently taking their clothes off in solidarity. When the nude protest left the youth camp to march downtown the police attacked. After injuring and arresting some of the the nude protesters the police lashed out at journalists and bystanders. An unknown number of people were hospitalized or arrested as a result of the police assault. At the end of a week of rhetoric about international solidarity this is a disgraceful example of intolerance. Unfortunately, this police repression is consistent with past years whenever groups have protested without the WSF and PT's (Workers Party's) consent. In protest of the PT's authoritarian dominance of Brasilian social movements and Lula's trip to Davos, a Brasilian anarchist pied the President of the PT during the WSF.

I Don't See The Difference
by ML (No verified email address)	Current rating: 1 31 Jan 2003 Modified: 12:50:52 PM
It's tiring and discouraging to see people continuously acting as if they know what the local women had in mind when they bared all to protest the coming war. As someone said earlier, such criticism seems far more akin to ideological Stalinism than anything else. And they still haven't told us what THEY have done or are willing to do for peace today, rather than attacking the well-intentioned actions of others. I really don't see the point of this if they are in the same breath seemingly insisting that THEY have a better answer about what people should be doing, even while they do nothing but criticize And it's downright sick to claim, in the name of defending women, that you know better than they did what they intended. I am willing to take them at their word about what they intended. I also think that this sort of behavior very closely resembles the thought processes of the occasional male who thinks that the degree of a woman's nakedness is somehow an invitation to unwanted advances from him. Why is it that a couple of people insist on repetitively projecting their thoughts into the minds of others? I guess because the critics seem to have significant issues regarding the control of others thought processes and actions. It's also interesting that both a woman and a man continue to insist of this tack. Need they be reminded that minds function best, like parachutes, when they are open?

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by Amy Watts awatts (nospam) knox.edu (unverified)	Current rating: 3 31 Jan 2003
Right On! Amazing job with this photo :) this message is spreading far & wide

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by Genterless (No verified email address)	Current rating: 0 01 Feb 2003 Modified: 12:54:12 AM
ML's 1/31/2003 comment titled "I don't see the difference" merits an extension. So much of this brave act for peace has been misdirected and has turned into an amorphous or rather polymorphous debate and personal accusations (and at times threats) against one another and has generated views which have notheing to do with peace, really. And so, why not have the brave womyn of the peace sign write a little something (as a group) that would be a response to all the comments posted here? I know it may take a bit of doing, but it may be something worthy of doing. Let's bring peace back into this debate and let's do it in the name of peace. Yours in peace, Genterless

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by Marg (No verified email address)	Current rating: 0 01 Feb 2003
Genterless - A number of the womyn who participated have! The penultimate statement (2nd only to the PEACE image) is the press release - the text which accompanies the image. Namaste, Marg

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by Genterless (No verified email address)	Current rating: 3 01 Feb 2003
Marg-- I appreciated the reminder about the already existing message fomr the peace sign womyn. Yes, I am aware of that. But I was hoping to encourage the peace sign womyn to write something specific to all the commentaries here (the over 40 some odd comments posted here). In peace, Genterless

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by Genterless (No verified email address)	Current rating: 0 01 Feb 2003 Modified: 01:13:12 PM
Marg-- I appreciated the reminder about the already existing message fomr the peace sign womyn. Yes, I am aware of that. But I was hoping to encourage the peace sign womyn to write something specific to all the commentaries here (the over 40 some odd comments posted here). In peace, Genterless

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by ? (No verified email address)	Current rating: 0 01 Feb 2003 Modified: 01:52:34 PM
Genterless: I was one of the comment posters here and thought the original press release and participants' subsequent comments spoke to the topic(s) at hand. Personally, I don't see any need for even further discussion unless anyone else chooses to post. In respectful disagreement, and peace. p.s. Good luck Jeanette!

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by jim (No verified email address)	Current rating: -4 01 Feb 2003 Modified: 08:45:00 PM
WOW! This is a courageous stand! I was so impressed with this empty-headed gesture that I phoned the White House. I asked that the war effort be increased as to thwart more vapid silliness of the lunatic left. I suggest as a bold statement, that these courageous women haul their naked butts to Iraq. This protest would be welcomed as would they. Life would be a happy rape-filled experience if they weren't killed first. Get a clue!

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by GP (No verified email address)	Current rating: 0 02 Feb 2003 Modified: 10:23:00 AM
I'd truly like to peacefully add comment and hopefully a bit of resolve to how my initial reaction unsettled a few. My ultimate feeling is/was that these women had a lot of courage and daring. I think the action had to be fun and challenging, and I personally visulized a whole lot of laughter and shocking remarks as everyone dis-robed and felt their torsos and limbs against the snow. These thoughts made me laugh. It brought a bit of humor to the effort in my way of thinking. Shock value indeed! I felt the numbing cold, I heard the screams and laughter as I envisioned it all. Did it carry further meaning to me beyond some very ambitious, sporting and daring ladies making a statement? Not really. It actually surfaced more questions than suggestive solutions to the world's problems, for me. My personal tendency is to write Congresspersons regarding issues I'm very serious about. I've never honestly thought of including a naked photo...hmmmmm... (and I have the firm belief such a ploy would not work on my sorry behalf!)(laugh here) I do adore the daring nature of the ladies involved, however, and it's one final point I'd like to make clear. -GP

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by Bernie Glynn bwglynn (nospam) hotmail.com (unverified)	Current rating: 0 02 Feb 2003 Modified: 06:59:15 PM
The fact that you have read all this debate on sexuality, appropriateness, effetiveness etc, means to me that it's doing what it set out to do. Giving a voice to the hundreds, thousands, millions who don't want a war. Wasn't THAT the point? I like naked women. If these protests gain my attention, then they are effective.

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by John hautemon (nospam) hotmail.com (unverified)	Current rating: 0 02 Feb 2003 Modified: 03 Feb 2003
While there isn't really a lucid (word-friendly) statement on war and peace in this act, it was definitely constructive. First, it brought peace activism to another audience who, while not immediately respecting the act or actors, will in time likely realize and be affected by their willingness to sacrifice in compassion and solidarity. Furthermore, the discussion of gender and sexuality issues would likely not otherwise have been raised in this male-dominated forum and, as has been mentioned, women's needs have been subordinated to this and so many other causes that it does have an important place here. I don't agree that to appeal to people's sexual or sexually-informed aesthetic sense in an instance like this is inherently exploitative. I don't agree that to recognize that women have an accessible power in the use of their bodies is to say that they have no other power. In this struggle for peace, people need to use all the resources we can, and to rule one out because it's problematic for some is to give up important strength in a struggle against distended adversarial power. Right on to all these womyn. Peace.

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by ***** (No verified email address**)	Current rating: 0 03 Feb 2003 Modified: 01:18:35 AM
I think the "?" is really missing the great point that "Genterless" brought up. Yes, why not have the bright and brave womyn of the peace sign write up a specific response as a group to the posted comments here? What is there to loose? There is so much to be gained. I would certainly like to see the peace sign womyn respond to the posters here since the peace sign womyn control both the act and its intended meaning. And my sense is that with such control comes responsibility and duty and obligation whcih need to be taken seriously, else everyone might mischaracterize the "naked" peace sign as just another hip and cool form of art rather than a meaningful act of protest whose goal might be to empower the rest of us. I think "?" really tries to trivialize the importance and significance of dialogue and discussion on this evolving method of protest. About it brave womyn of the peace sign? In peace, ***

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace
by ? (No verified email address)	Current rating: 3 03 Feb 2003
I agree that the peace sign womyn control both the act and its intended meaning. I apologize if any of my comments trivialized the importance and significance of dialogue and discussion on this evolving method of protest. It was certainly not my intent, and again, I apologize.

Oops
by ? (No verified email address)	Current rating: 2 03 Feb 2003 Modified: 07:08:04 AM
To trivialize was not my intent or my beliefs about the subject. I agree that this is meaningful act of protest which I have thought about a great deal. Again, thank you CU Women, and I am sorry for any errors in my own use of language.

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace.
by Jack Ryan (No verified email address)	Current rating: -4 04 Feb 2003
I think I just read a book about this: "Bush at War". I completely disagree with your beliefs but I must admit I do like naked women. I think this act might make our boys fight harder so we will kick his ass out of Iraq and liberate these poor people. Keep up the pointless nudity. Love, Jack

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace.
by Jack Ryan (No verified email address)	Current rating: -10 05 Feb 2003
Hey, It's me Jack. While you ladies are providing aid and comfort to our enemies, you probably do not realize that you are also providing the same for every internet perve possible. Well, not the huge women. Anyway, The best way to prevent war is one's willingness to fight one. Don't you get it? If the world was truely united behind the President, this war would not take place. By the way, what do ladies in the buff think would happen to you if you tried your little display in the Muslim world? You would most likely be stoned to death or some other barbaric, insidious torture. Thank God we live in country were women can get naked and virtually, no one cares. Why don't men participate in such form of protest? "Shrinkage" Baby, Shrinkage.

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace.
by Jack Ryan (No verified email address)	Current rating: -10 05 Feb 2003
Sorry, I forgot something. Will the young lady forming the center of the last "E" please leave a number. You look hot. Jack

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace.
by Phil (No verified email address)	Current rating: 0 05 Feb 2003
Why don't you women at least maitain your pubic area...come on!

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace.
by Phil (No verified email address)	Current rating: 3 05 Feb 2003
Hey Jack....what are you wearing?

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace.
by Phil (No verified email address)	Current rating: 2 05 Feb 2003
My "kingdom" for a piece of Peace

Please Note
by ML (No verified email address)	Current rating: 0 06 Feb 2003
Please note that dick/head's two email addresses are unverified because does NOT have an e-mail address at UC IMC. If he has time for this nonsense, things must be a little slow this morning at the local FBI COINTELPRO office...

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace.
by Jack Ryan (No verified email address)	Current rating: -9 07 Feb 2003 Modified: 02:09:25 AM
Dear ML, It's Jack: Good Guess, but I do not work for the FBI. "Dick Heads", I thought you could do better than that, by engaging me in my comments. Seriously, I have been doing some thinking about your cause and I want to help. If you ladies really want to display the true horrors of war, may I suggest the following: Next time get the cute chicks and dress up in teddies and have two opposing armies with nothing but pillows to fight with. As the combat intensifies, clothing could be ripped off and serious combat could begin. This would be a combination of simulated combat and a women's prison movie. After the battle, the ladies could shower, hug and bathe each other as a sign of unity. This would gain immediate support of many men and a few females of the altenative lifestyle. While you are spending an inordinate amount of your time thinking of terms like "dick head" to support your very wise opinions, why not try to rebut my argument you tied dyed, earthshoe, Commie, VW bus driving, historically uninformed, American Hating, piece of shit. Bring it on.

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace.
by steve inputttaxed (nospam) hotmail.com (unverified)	Current rating: 2 10 Feb 2003 Modified: 12:32:37 AM
These women were not forced to use this form of protest. They did it because they thought it would be effective, and this is now self-evident. Suggesting that this display is sexual is clearly wrong. The images are presented in a totally unarousing way - they're not teasing or flaunitng. Suggesting that this surrenders their dignity or renders them as subservient sex objects, is an insult to their strength of resolve and character. I also admire the men who have chosen to demonstrate in this way, indeed I would join a similarprotest if it occurred locally. Finally, there may be legal reasons why women are using this form of protest more than men. In some jurisdictions, indecent exposure is defined as exposure of genitalia. This effectively discriminates against men because their genitals aren't hidden from view, unlike those of a woman. Still, men or women, they've all got balls for going out there and protesting.

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace.
by Jack Ryan (No verified email address)	Current rating: 0 10 Feb 2003 Modified: 12:10:29 PM
Good Morning everyone, Jack again: I guess by my -12 rating on my suggestion for a pillow fight did not go over so well. I do believe that if you did it this way, you could raise a ton of money for your cause. How about at a Fraternity House? Since most of you have probably never been in one, let me know and I tell you how to get there. Steve, you said that this is not arousing in anyway. With all due respect dude, you need to see a doctor. Look at the lady at the bottom of the first E. Long black hair, nice butt, wacked out political views etc. She makes me want to scream out "God Bless America", (sorry, I know most of you find that song offensive). So anyway Steve, you also mention that you would participate if it were men only. Once again dude I must disagree, but if you choose to go through with it, may I suggest you avoid the guy who brings gerbils and for God's sake, keep your back to a wall or something. By the way, when is the next Broads Only event? This picture has gotten old. Thanks Again, Jack

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace.
by Jack Ryan (No verified email address)	Current rating: 1 10 Feb 2003 Modified: 12:27:43 PM
Dear ML, Hey it's Jack. I have'nt heard from you since you referred to me as a "Dick Head". Once again, good one. I Seriously, I am concerned. Is it possible that when forming a letter with your naked body that you may have accidentally got your head stuck up your ass? I understand this is a common problem from people with your political leanings. Respond if you can, and I'll send help. Peace through strength, Jack

Gestapo Tactics Of Naked Peace Skanks And Other Idiots
by qwerty (No verified email address)	Current rating: 0 10 Feb 2003
Hi, Jack. Glad to see that you've been initiated in the first one everybody that disagrees with them is an FBI agent. Have fun, Jack. These losers need to be kept in check. Keep up the good work.

Trolls
by * (No verified email address)	Current rating: 4 10 Feb 2003 Modified: 05:54:29 PM
Trolls are so Twentieth Century. That's why no one is paying any attention to you.

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace.
by Jack Ryan (No verified email address)	Current rating: -1 11 Feb 2003
Hey Qwerty, thanks for the encouragement. Hey Trolls you must be French because you are too afraid to fight. Liberals are like that, they can't support their arguments so they attack the messenger. Truthfully, I am all about love if I were just given the chance. For example, the lady with the long black hair on the lowest portion of the first "e". Your talents are being wasted. I would like to make a standing lower case "h" with you. I will be the one standing erect. Now that would be a statement that everyone could understand. Peace Through Strentgh Jack

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace.
by Jack Ryan (No verified email address)	Current rating: 0 11 Feb 2003
Hey It's me Jack: Sorry I have commented in a while, I have been exploiting my workers all day. Like most conservatives, I am bringing all the ideas and doing all of the work from which you liberals benefits. This is almost becoming my column. I am fine with that, but I need to be able to keep up on what it is you are bitching about today. See You, Jack

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace.
by Jeff Melton redgreen (nospam) kiva.net (unverified)	Current rating: 0 11 Feb 2003 Modified: 06:11:39 PM
"These women were not forced to use this form of protest. They did it because they thought it would be effective, and this is now self-evident." What evidence is there that this form of protest is effective? There is no clear evidence one way or another. So it's attention-getting. So what? Getting attention is not the same thing as changing people's opinions. And I haven't seen any nude peace protestors on the cover of Time magazine or anything lately, so it's not at all clear to me that the media is assiduously covering these protests. "Suggesting that this display is sexual is clearly wrong. The images are presented in a totally unarousing way - they're not teasing or flaunitng." Then why do some of the groups who are doing these protests cite the play Lysistrata, which was all about women using their bodies and their sexual attractiveness to men to persuade them not to go to war, as an inspiration? Why are the protests so overwhelmingly female (now even more so than when this protest first took place, with the recent 750-woman protest in Australia and various smaller all-female nude peace protests that have taken place since the Champaign-Urbana protest)? Do you really think this phenomenon of female nude peace protests has nothing to do with the facts that it is males much more than females who are turned on by nudity of the opposite sex, that politicians are overwhelmingly male, or that society in general tends to find it acceptable to objectify women and reduce them to their physical appearance? "Suggesting that this surrenders their dignity or renders them as subservient sex objects, is an insult to their strength of resolve and character." You can't just pretend that the social context in which such protests take place -- one in which objectification of women is widespread, as a walk through any grocery store aisle will attest -- doesn't exist, and that it's only the good intentions and determination of the women who participate that matters. I'm not disputing whether those who participate are determined opponents of war; I'm questioning the appropriateness of this particular way of expressing it. Given the societal context, for women to take off their clothes in protest of something does nothing to undermine the reduction of women to their appearance that is so much a part of our society. Moreover, it's at least highly questionable whether such content-less protests are as effective in influencing public opinion as a good letter to the editor would be. "I also admire the men who have chosen to demonstrate in this way, indeed I would join a similarprotest if it occurred locally." I have much greater admiration for the women and men who are speaking out so eloquently against this war -- literally, with logical arguments and evidence, rather than by spelling out words with their bodies. I try to do the same. "Finally, there may be legal reasons why women are using this form of protest more than men. In some jurisdictions, indecent exposure is defined as exposure of genitalia. This effectively discriminates against men because their genitals aren't hidden from view, unlike those of a woman." Last I heard, vaginas were considered genitalia. Also, there's nothing preventing men (like many of the women in the above photo) from having their backs to the camera.

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace.
by Jeff Melton redgreen (nospam) kiva.net (unverified)	Current rating: 0 11 Feb 2003 Modified: 07:25:43 PM
"These women were not forced to use this form of protest. They did it because they thought it would be effective, and this is now self-evident." What evidence is there that this form of protest is effective? There is no clear evidence one way or another. So it's attention-getting. So what? Getting attention is not the same thing as changing people's opinions. And I haven't seen any nude peace protestors on the cover of Time magazine or anything lately, so it's not at all clear to me that the media is assiduously covering these protests. "Suggesting that this display is sexual is clearly wrong. The images are presented in a totally unarousing way - they're not teasing or flaunitng." Then why do some of the groups who are doing these protests cite the play Lysistrata, which was all about women using their bodies and their sexual attractiveness to men to persuade them not to go to war, as an inspiration? Why are the protests so overwhelmingly female (now even more so than when this protest first took place, with the recent 750-woman protest in Australia and various smaller all-female nude peace protests that have taken place since the Champaign-Urbana protest)? Do you really think this phenomenon of female nude peace protests has nothing to do with the facts that it is males much more than females who are turned on by nudity of the opposite sex, that politicians are overwhelmingly male, or that society in general tends to find it acceptable to objectify women and reduce them to their physical appearance? "Suggesting that this surrenders their dignity or renders them as subservient sex objects, is an insult to their strength of resolve and character." You can't just pretend that the social context in which such protests take place -- one in which objectification of women is widespread, as a walk through any grocery store aisle will attest -- doesn't exist, and that it's only the good intentions and determination of the women who participate that matters. I'm not disputing whether those who participate are determined opponents of war; I'm questioning the appropriateness of this particular way of expressing it. Given the societal context, for women to take off their clothes in protest of something does nothing to undermine the reduction of women to their appearance that is so much a part of our society. Moreover, it's at least highly questionable whether such content-less protests are as effective in influencing public opinion as a good letter to the editor would be. "I also admire the men who have chosen to demonstrate in this way, indeed I would join a similarprotest if it occurred locally." I have much greater admiration for the women and men who are speaking out so eloquently against this war -- literally, with logical arguments and evidence, rather than by spelling out words with their bodies. I try to do the same. "Finally, there may be legal reasons why women are using this form of protest more than men. In some jurisdictions, indecent exposure is defined as exposure of genitalia. This effectively discriminates against men because their genitals aren't hidden from view, unlike those of a woman." Last I heard, vaginas were considered genitalia. Also, there's nothing preventing men (like many of the women in the above photo) from having their backs to the camera.

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace.
by Jack Ryan (No verified email address)	Current rating: 0 12 Feb 2003
Hello Jack Ryan Fans, I realize you folks do not agree me, but could someone explain what the hell this Jeff Melton is trying to say. He felt strongly enough to log it in twice and I still think it lacks a point and like most liberal men he seems unsure of himself around the vagina. That is so sad really. Jeff, if you have any questions I would be glad to assist you despite our political differences. Jack

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace.
by Jack Ryan (No verified email address)	Current rating: 0 14 Feb 2003 Modified: 10:29:45 AM
Jack's Weather Report: Hello Anti-Americans. I thought as an act of kindness I would take a moment to inform you that we are supposed to get an ice storm today. Probably not a great day to bare all for your loopy cause. However, I hope this does not discourage the really hot chicks in your protest (about 3) from removing their clothing perhaps indoors. Hot showers are welcome on this cold winter day. Good Luck and Stay Warm. By the way, any of you nut bags headed to D.C. this weekend to provide aid and comfort to the enemy? Do you travelnaked all the way or do you remove your clothes after you get there. Interested to hear from you. M.L. are you still mad at me? Jeff Melton, did you ever get straighted out on your confusion with the Vagina? You really need to know about this stuff on the off chance that you are heterosexual. Seriously, have a safe trip this weekend and try not to get your genitals too close to the burning flags. Peace through Strength, Jack

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace.
by Jack Ryan (No verified email address)	Current rating: -2 14 Feb 2003 Modified: 12:14:25 PM
Hey, it's Jack, This is in response to " Hot Carl" Estabrook's letter in the NG last night. I wanted to write to those who have voiced opposition to the President’s proposed war in Iraq. First, to the “atheist left”: Before you folks tie dye your shirts, burn the flag, lay naked in the snow, and spit on the soldiers who secure the freedom which you enjoy; I would ask that you each consider bathing this time. To the NEA and many college professors: Please read a history book? You may want to focus on Adolf Hitler, Neville Chamberlain and the word “appeasement”. To our reluctant allies in Europe: The world is not all that crazy about Germans marching in uniform anyway. As for our close friends in France, if the U.S. military ever needs advice on how to get routed, surrounded or how to surrender, you guys will be the first we call. To the U.N.: Maybe you should focus on “family extermination” excuse me, “planning”, instead of giving seats to Sudan and Syria on your human rights committee. To our Arab enemies foolish enough to take on the U.S. military: Pick up a copy of the 1950’s song “Duck and Cover”. To Jimmy Carter: If the U.S. needs to be humiliated on the world stage again, we will follow your lead. To Bill Clinton: Next time, try to be more concerned with the intelligence papers that fall on your desk instead of who may be under it. The families of our dead would have appreciated it. To everyone not mentioned above: Pray for the rapid success and safety of our men and women in uniform and thank them for their sacrifice. To the people of Iraq, stand by to be liberated.

More Protests
by Brian Evans Brian_Evans73 (nospam) hotmail.com (unverified)	Current rating: 0 14 Feb 2003
First off, I support Bush. Secondly, if there is a need to protest, me and every other red-blooded American male are BIG fans of this method. Bring on more protests!

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace.
by Dustin Aldrich dustin_aldrich (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified)	Current rating: 0 14 Feb 2003
I also support Bush (no pun intended) - these protests would be better if you could recruit some hotter looking babes.

Here Here!
by Brian Evans Brian_Evans73 (nospam) hotmail.com (unverified)	Current rating: 0 14 Feb 2003
And much closer pictures. Like 5' away. And individually. In fact, I really don't care to see the entire symbol.

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace.
by Jack Ryan (No verified email address)	Current rating: -2 14 Feb 2003 Modified: 10:58:01 PM
Bryan and Dustin: Boy's welcome to my new web site. Originally it was intended as some sort of Anti-American wacked out protest deal, but like the French, they ran at the first sign of adversity. I have suggested a pillow fight but was roundly shunned. As a tremendous Bush supporter myself, (no pun intended) I find these nut bags to be adverse to suggestions as well as debate. I do disagree with one comment. Look at the babe with the long black hair at the bottom of the first "e". Although confused politically, she could make us all stand at attention. (Please see prior Jack comments) Hey honey, could you please face our direction in the next protest, we want to see Abe Lincoln. Regards, Jack

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace.
by Jack Ryan (No verified email address)	Current rating: -2 14 Feb 2003
Hey Leftists: It is kind of ironic that I have more positive comments than the naked chicks at this point. What's really funny is I did not even have to get naked to do it. Naturally, if I did, I am sure the babes would be most complimentary. You are probably meeting to see how you can get "Jack" off. ( the site that is) Convince me and I will. If not give me one or two of the hot chicks and we'll call it even. Regards, Jack

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace.
by Jack Ryan (No verified email address)	Current rating: 3 18 Feb 2003 Modified: 09:42:07 AM
Good Morning Leftys: Question: When the war starts and it will, who will you guys be rooting for? Question: Is this more of just an anti-Bush protest than an actual protest against the war? Question: Where were all the naked babes when Clinton went into Bosnia and fired 500 or so cruise missles into Iraq? Question: As you were spelling in the snow, did it cross your minds that you could have been laying in a large collection of dog shit? Question: Do you have enough courage to defend your statements? Peace through Strength, Jack

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace.
by Jack Ryan (No verified email address)	Current rating: 3 20 Feb 2003
I wanted to apologize for my prior postings. I can get a little out of hand when I don't take my medication. I suffer from severe depression and impotence. I think your public expression is a wonderful example of our freedoms in this country. Keep getting the message out. I'll be cheering for you. Again, I'm sorry! Regards, Jack

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace.
by Jack Ryan (No verified email address)	Current rating: 3 20 Feb 2003
Hey! That's not the real Jack Ryan, I'm the real Jack Ryan! But, you're right, I am sorry! Regards, Jack

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace.
by Jack Ryan (No verified email address)	Current rating: 2 20 Feb 2003 Modified: 04:27:53 PM
Sorry folks, it seems that someone claiming to be me, has tried to compliment you folks for your nutty display. You clever little lefty. While it is true, that I support your right to public nudity and that I have probably had several of the cute members of the protest squad, (You know who you are) I do not, nor will I ever say that your cheer for our enemies was in any way courageous. I think that you are sad, angry, people who share a hatred for the greatest country on earth. Peace through Strength, Jack

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace.
by L. Rex Ehling lrexehling (nospam) earthlink.net (verified)	Current rating: 0 22 Feb 2003
Good for the midwest community.

Nude Chicks Photo
by John Rambo (No verified email address)	Current rating: -2 25 Feb 2003
That lady at the top of the C is a real fat ass. Put some clothes on. Also, the lady to the right of the letter A, is she able to breath with her face the other chick's ass? That is about all I draw out of this little display. It sure dosen't do anything for peace; I sure hope no taxpayer money helped support this crap. John Rambo "I am your worst nightmare"

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace.
by Jim Felix pvoice (nospam) telus.net (verified)	Current rating: 0 26 Feb 2003 Modified: 01:06:05 PM
Too bad this interesting discussion seems to have been hijacked by guys who seem to worship at the altar of death and war. But thanks to all the women who launched this movement. Many were inspired to take part, including a group of bicycle enthusiasts here in Vancouver, Canada. Organizing themselves as "Artists Against War," they have held several events, including the nude peace symbol action here at Sunset Beach on Feb. 23, with about 65 people. It was about even between the two genders. Most who took part have also been involved in other local anti-war events in recent months. A few, like myself, have been in the movement for a long time (32 years in my case). I find it very empowering to get people to think about a wide range of forms of protest, even though the mass rally remains the most effective. Our Feb. 23 event was the only peace action here on that day, and got considerable coverage, keeping the issue in the news. Also, the fact that men and women of all ages and body types are willing to shed our clothes and make such a statement together is a powerful rejection of values which promote violence. It says - here we are, unarmed except for our bicyles and our ideas, with a better vision of cooperation for the future than all the warmongers and patriarchs combined. Will this change the world? Not by itself, but it takes many drops of water to turn the wheel, etc.

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace.
by susan hangge hangge (nospam) aol.com (unverified)	Current rating: 0 26 Feb 2003
bravo

Jimmy
by Jack Ryan (No verified email address)	Current rating: 0 28 Feb 2003
Dear Jimmy, Hijacked??? If you will recall, this is what got us here in the first place. I thought you folks welcomed all comments? Apparently this in only true if you support the message, which I clearly do not. I do support co-ed naked protest though. Nice job making this happen. Were I not such a good American, I might try this tact myself. Where is your posted website and I promise I will come there and make fun of them too. Jack.

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace.
by Dick Johnson (No verified email address)	Current rating: 0 01 Mar 2003
Nice tits!

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace.
by Mike emsed1 (nospam) halcyonmedia.net (verified)	Current rating: 0 01 Mar 2003
I admire and respect the fact that someone would lie naked in snow to present their point, however, the naivete' of these women is shocking. There can be no peace until murderous dictators are removed. Hundreds of thousands of Iraqi citizens have died at Saddam's hands, and I am sure he would be happy to see Americans like this playing right into his hand.

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace.
by Mike emsed1 (nospam) halcyonmedia.net (unverified)	Current rating: 0 01 Mar 2003
I admire and respect the fact that someone would lie naked in snow to present their point, however, the naivete' of these women is shocking. There can be no peace until murderous dictators are removed. Hundreds of thousands of Iraqi citizens have died at Saddam's hands, and I am sure he would be happy to see Americans like this playing right into his hand.

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace.
by Billy the Kid badinblack (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified)	Current rating: 0 02 Mar 2003 Modified: 01:04:12 AM
First off I want to say, GO JACK RYAN GO!!!!! its about time someone told these america hating a**holes where to get off at. Jack if you ever need some one to watch your back just call. Let them go live under Saddam's rule if all they want to do is bitch about the greatist land in the world. So gals shut up stand up put your clothing on and get back into the kitchen where you belong

Billy The Kid
by Jack Ryan (No verified email address)	Current rating: 0 03 Mar 2003
Dear Kid, Thanks for getting in the game. Sometimes you feel like you are encirled by nothing but nutbags. These people not only need to be confronted, but they need to be soundly defeated. Thanks again for the help. Jack

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace.

by SW
fake (nospam) faked.com (unverified)

Current rating: -1
03 Mar 2003
Modified: 07:17:39 PM

What an irony! Your freedom of expression is enslaving those elsewhere--the Iraqi people! Are you happy to be helping Saddam & Uday to rape & repress others?

Protests only encourage Saddam. They discourage the French, Russians, Chinese and Germans from doing the right thing. These selfish governments are only interested in continuing trade with Iraq. Hooray for world leaders like George Bush & Tony Blair who are willing to do the right thing, despite protesters like you, and selfish sentiment in their business communities & legislatures!

Due to protests, more American blood will be spilt, and the world will not share in the burden of freeing Iraq and destroying the WMDs. It may even be true that the war will last longer, and thus more Iraqi blood will be spilt. Will you be proud then?

Have you no sense of history? Saddam is no caged tiger! Given his self-worship, Saddam has the motive to use WMDs. He has the means to strike other countries, is expanding on that range, and with al-Qaeda could expand to our shores. History shows that he has the proclivity to actually use them! He has the stockpiles necessary to do a little here and there to appease the U.N. Should by some miracle Iraq completely deplete its stockpiles of Vx and other WMDs, they have the brainpower to create more, and the mobility to keep those stockpiles under wraps.

The anti-Bush folks accuse him of being a cowboy interested in one thing: American access to Iraqi oil. In fact, Bush has every financial motive to leave Saddam alone. It is true that he wanted to go into Iraq a long time ago, but he has played the patient game that the U.N. has demanded, sending inspectors in (knowing that inspections alone could never ensure Saddam�s compliance, even if we flooded the country with them). On the flip side, it is the Bush detractors who are holding the world hostage, in order to retain profitable trade with Iraq, and perhaps to tweak the U.S.�s nose over Kyoto. (I�m not in favor of the American position there, FWIW.)

I admire your hatred of war, but has history taught us nothing?

Nice Try, Ladies...
by kelley prettygirlsmakegraves_kell (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified)	Current rating: 0 03 Mar 2003
but using the shock value of your sex (and it isnt really a shock. i see myself nude every day. woo--big deal.) isnt really the way to get your point across. im not sure if you think the peace thing has something to with the love you have for the world in your womb, but you just look ridiculous. and cold. next time, why dont you try a more conservative approach? something modest, something tasteful, something relevant to the war! (and put on some clothes. no one wants to see your hippie bushes.)

Losing The Big Momentum
by Jack Ryan (No verified email address)	Current rating: 0 04 Mar 2003
Wow, These people all can't be Jack Ryan. I guess you guys will have to try something new. Would it be wrong for me to resuggest the pillow fight again. How about a really nasty protest involving VolleyBall? Jack

Hey Naked Ladies
by Jack Ryan (No verified email address)	Current rating: -3 18 Mar 2003
Dear Naked Ladies, Well, in the next 24 hours it looks as though I will be off to protect you all from a war you fought so "nakedly" to prevent. I hope you are all over your colds. Since I am going to war to protect you all, I thought maybe, I could have the black haired lady for one night maybe two, depending on the weather, before I go. I know she would be enternally grateful and I would be able to face the enemy as a happy man. Please continue to send naked photos, while me and the boys are fighting for your freedom. It really keeps our morale up. Your Friend and Warrior, Jack

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace.
by Billy billyb (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified)	Current rating: 0 20 Mar 2003
Hey, next time you girls are going to do a nude protest, let me know so I can get in a good position to watch with my box of Kleenex.

Re: CU Women Bare Witness For Peace.
by Jack Ryan (No verified email address)	Current rating: -3 02 May 2003
Dear Misguided Naked Ladies, Perhaps now that we have won the war, you could spell out something like, "WE KICKED ASS". Just a suggestion. Jack