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News :: Miscellaneous |
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The Jenin Massacre Gallery |
Current rating: 0 |
by Storm Bear Williams
Email: storm (nospam) nauseamanifesto.com (unverified!) |
02 May 2002
Modified: 05 May 2002 |
We keep hearing the comforting stories on the nightly news, assuring us that no massacre occurred in Jenin. The U.N. murmurs in soft, loving tones in an effort to convince us that no massacre ever happened and it was all Palestinian propaganda.
Sadly, the photos tell a different story. |
We keep hearing the comforting stories on the nightly news, assuring us that no massacre occurred in Jenin. The U.N. murmurs in soft, loving tones in an effort to convince us that no massacre ever happened and it was all Palestinian propaganda.
Sadly, the photos tell a different story.
Jenin Massacre Gallery |
See also:
http://www.nauseamanifesto.com/jenin
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Photos |
by Josh Michaels
michals1 (nospam) uiuc.edu (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
03 May 2002
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Sadly, the photos DON'T tell a different story. Look at every single photo at the URL posted. I see absolutly no evidence of a massacre in these photos. Do the photos indicate that Israel may have gone too far in their destruction at Jenin? Possibly - but there is certainly no proof, as we have no before and after photos. These photos are a primary example of exactly how the Palestinians attempt to gain support from the international community. Taking pictures of children in front of rubble proves NOTHING MORE than that the children were walking through the rubble. The Palestinians use children as human shields! The Palestinians intentionally target Israeli children for death! The Palestinians take pictures of children in front of rubble to make the international community feel sorry for them! Should any childrens home be destroyed? NO! Should Israel have bulldozed homes in Jenin? NO! Do these photos provide evidence of a massacre? NO! Do these photos provide evidence of Israel targeting children for death? NO!
QUESTION ALL EVIDENCE FROM JENIN! |
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Making It Hard To Obtain Evidence |
by ML
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
03 May 2002
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Those confident that no war crimes occurred in Jenin should be the first to encourage and allow an independent UN investigation to get underway in Jenin. Sadly, the Israeli position on such an investigation is that there should NOT be one. If there is nothing to hide... |
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UN Investigation |
by Josh Michaels
michals1 (nospam) uiuc.edu (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
03 May 2002
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The Israeli position is not that there should NOT be a UN investigation into Jenin, it is that there SHOULD be an investigation but that the investigation needs to be fair and unbiased. The UN has not cooperated with Israel in providing a team of people to investigate Jenin who are not pre-biased against Israel. The teams that the UN has proposed to Israel have all contained people who Israel already has evidence are biased against Israel. The UN is attempting to go into Jenin with the attitude of "Israel did something wrong here, let's figure out what it is" rather than "We're not sure who did what here and we need to investigate." Both the UN and Israel need to stop being as stubborn here if we ever want to see an investigation into what happened in Jenin. Personally though, I'd much rather see no investigation than a biased one, because the reality is that a biased investigation will simply add credibility to many of the lies that are currently coming out of Palestine and Jenin. Certainly though Israel is not the only party to blame in the continued lack of such an investigation. |
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Israel Is ONLY Party Blocking An Investigation |
by ML
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
03 May 2002
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I beg to differ, Josh. Israel is blocking the investiagtion because they feel the fix is not in IN FAVOR of the Israeli position on this. The proposed investigating team included a US military officer, hardly a prescription for bias against Israel. If there really is nothing to hide, how could even a biased team find fault? Given the tone of the Israeli government, and your unquestioning defense of it, it sounds far more likely that there is something to hide.
Without an immediate investigation, what you refer to as simply rumors and fabrications will continue to fester and grow, adding to the belief of many that Israel was party to war crimes in its conduct. There is one way to put an end to such beliefs--open an immediate investigation that will be regarded as independent by the rest of the world. Anything less than that will simply add fuel to the fire.
The only credible reason not to have an investigation is that it will CONFIRM the belief that war crimes occurred in Jenin. |
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Where are the Pal Soldiers? |
by Storm Bear Williams
storm (nospam) nauseamanifesto.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
03 May 2002
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To put this gallery together, I had a few hundred photos from AP to pick from. Of all of those, only ONE could have been an Palestinian fighter, but no gun, grenade launcher or anti-personnel missles are in the photo.
If you look back through the pix, you will see dead parents laying on top of dead children, that I can only guess was a last ditch effort to protect them.
Again, if it was a pitched battle between the IDF and PLO, where are the dead PLO fighters? All of the damage caused could not have come from trying to take that ONE guy out.
If we had mounds of dead soldiers and a few dead civilians laying about, then maybe it would be collateral damage. But the IDF admits to firing rounds from tanks INTO apartment buildings.
In my mind, that is a massacre.
SBW |
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unavailable website |
by sarah
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
03 May 2002
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I tried to access the photos. the site is not working. Has anyone else been able to access the site. Is it shut down? |
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It Worked for Me |
by ML
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
03 May 2002
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Sarah,
It just worked for me. I was using Netscape 4.78. You might try a reboot if you haven't already done so. |
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Investigation.. |
by Josh Michaels
michals1 (nospam) uiuc.edu (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
04 May 2002
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ML,
I agree with you. I want to see an investigation in Jenin more than ANYTHING. Until then, all we have is a mixture of facts that don't point in any strong direction. Remember though:
1. Yesterday the Palestinians were caught FAKING a funeral on camera by the IDF. The video showed someone laying down, being covered in cloth, carried through a ceremony as dead, and then re-emerging alive at the end of the ceremony. You can see the video for yourself, it's posted on a wide range on major-media outlets.
2. The count of total dead in Jenin as made by an international aid organization is still at 52, only 22 of which are civilians. That count is validated by the hospitals in Jenin, and is VERY VERY close to the death count that was provided by the IDF. There were 23 IDF soldiers killed in Jenin, leaving the ratio of IDF dead to Palestinians dead at 23:52. Hardly a massacre, though still I agree not one civilian should have been killed. How many civilians were killed in Afghanistan again? Thousands?
-j |
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No Pal Soldiers... |
by Josh Michaels
michals1 (nospam) uiuc.edu (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
04 May 2002
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Storm,
I'm sorry man, but you can't conclude there has been a massacre on the basis that you have a set of photos and none of them have Palestinians soldiers in them. Remember that most of the "soldiers" in Palestine are often dressed in plain clothes, not camo like the IDF soldiers, so it would be hard to pick them out in the first place. In any case, I understand the logic you are using in your argument, but it is very faulty. A lack of "palestinian soldiers" in your images does not prove or even slightly indicate that there was a massacre in Jenin.
-j |
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a plea |
by JF
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
04 May 2002
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Neither side has a leg to stand on, morally. The Palestinian suicide bombers are criminals because they use violence against innocent people. So are the Israeli forces. I don't care what justification the IDF uses -- that they're armed to the teeth and greatly outnumber the Palestinian terrorists all but guarantees that innocent Palestinians will be senselessly murdered. They clearly understand and accept this, and that is utterly reprehensible.
I have no comprehension of how any sane person could advocate violence in this conflict. Both sides need to stop blaming the other side for the violence they commit. Suicide bombings are not "responses" to anything, and the IDF's brutal tactics are not "self defense".
The only solution to war is to reject violence completely and unconditionally. |
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Peace Peace Peace |
by fghfgh
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
05 May 2002
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zdfghxfgh |
See also:
http://jerusalem.indymedia.org/news/2002/04/16916.php
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