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uc-imc needs your MONEY! |
Current rating: 0 |
by malatesta
Email: malatesta1000 (unverified!) |
27 May 2005
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I'm reposting here a commentary I added to a feature story about ucimc buying a building. I'm so completely astonished by what I'm seeing that I wanted to engage worldwide imc folks and gather their thoughts. |
Just when I'd lost my steam, something comes along to stoke the fire and build up the pressure near the boiling point.
A message from DC off the listserve:
"dear imcistas,
this is a friendly little reminder that the day we bought the post office,
we started to spend $200 EVERY day.
we also got dozens of e-mails offering love, money, support. the whole
city is excited to see what comes of this - waiting for us to open our
arms.
these are dangerous times. these are exciting times for us.
wake up. the imc needs you.
love,
danielle
p.s. please don't e-mail me your thoughts. i want your actions, not your
words."
Where to begin?
How about multiplying $200 per day by 30 days per month and coming up with $6,000 per month?
SIX THOUSAND DOLLARS A MONTH!
And so, we are told, ucimc needs us. Needs us to what? Well, we're told it's not our words that are needed but our "actions."
"Actions?" THERE'S a nice little euphemism.
Ucimc needs your MONEY! Say it, g'head, let it roll off your tongue:
"Money."
The idea then seems to be to collect $75,000 a year (the numbers truly -- truly -- boggle the mind) of those limited progressive philanthropic dollars from this community to pay the mortgage on the clubhouse.
Where is this getting anyone? What benefit is this to the community? It nets out at a very serious drain.
As the popular bumper sticker says, "If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." |
This work is in the public domain |
Comments
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pissing and moaning |
by gehrig
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
27 May 2005
|
Okay, everybody in the entire UC-IMC, you must instantly stop whatever you're doing, because a former UCIMC member named "malatesta" didn't personally approve it.
"Malatesta," what do you hope to accomplish with your pissing and moaning?
@%< |
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Re: uc-imc needs your MONEY! |
by La Ley
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
27 May 2005
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The boiling is all occurring within your own head, malatesta. If you'd been reading articles about the Post Office posted on this website, or even used a little common sense, you'd realize that there are mortgage and utility bills to be paid, and there are plans to deal with this. Anyone even remotely involved locally knows this. So, when are you coming to a planning meeting to discuss this? |
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Re: uc-imc needs your MONEY! |
by someone
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
27 May 2005
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Malatesta was trying to present the truth of the matter. He/she has done it all right. However, though ucimc is very rapidly running towards the complete self-destruction, ideological and financial, nothing is changed in the behavior of its "great leaders" and their "politically correct barking dogs, with, maybe, own agendas". So, good riddance to this well earned end of the story, ucimc. |
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While Your Digging Through the Email, Troll |
by regular reader
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
27 May 2005
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OK, since the troll's knowledge of UC IMC seems almost totally based on his selective digging through email, why doesn't he go back and give us a more balanced view of the building decision?
At one of its first meetings in the fall of 2000, when it was still fifteen people meeting in people's living rooms, UC IMC consensed on a long-term goal of buying a building after it was decided that , for our community, having a financially sustainable public space was very important in order to effectively do Indymedia.
When UC IMC got serious about moving forward with buying a building about three years ago, it consensed to begin the Capital Campaign. And our community responded by raising $75,000, without a specific building in mind.
Several times, over the intervening years, the membership of UC IMC at its semi-annual meetings has repeatedly consensed to move forward with looking at alternate locations. Typically, these meetings drew 30 to 50 members.
As it engaged in negotiations with the PO over the last six months, IMC working groups and the Steering group all consensed at numerous steps along the way as things moved forward. A negotiating team was empowered to move forward expeditiously to buying a building, due to the noted inadequacies and uncertainties of the Main St. space.
Once more, at the April 2005 membership meeting, the UC IMC membership consensed to buying a building, but this time it was different -- we consensed on closing on a specific building, the downtown Urbana post office building. There were about 40 members present for that meeting. Two members sat out the conensus by choosing not to block it. Other than that, the idea receiving enthusiastic support as finally achiveing a goal that had beenrepeatedly consensed to over a number of years.
So troll, you reveal both your general ignorance about how consensus works in any organization that operates on the Indymedia model and your specific ignorance about the lengthy, sometimes acrimonious, but utimately fruitful process that led to where we are today. You choose to focus on distractions and digging in the archives to selectively present a distorted picture.
UC IMC will not need to raise $6,000 a month. While we do need to get tenants in the building and a performance space contructed bring in income, once this is accomplished, UC IMC will only need to raise slightly more than our ~$1,000 in monthly expenses at the current space we've used for four and a half years as its part of the overall costs of maintaining the new building.
So, the audience can do the math. Instead of sinking $700/month in rent alone into a 2,000 square foot pit that doesn't accomodate the community's needs from UC IMC, it can put a little more money into a 30,000 square foot building and have income to build equity from tenants that provide a synergy to building the pregressive base in our community.
UC IMC has achieved its goal of a long-term financially sustainable Indymedia Center and when the mortgage is paid off in fifteen years, even more resources will be brought to bear on the things we all care about.
As for the troll's incessant whining about depleting the progressive funding base in our community, he again displays his ignorance of local conditions. Local public and community radio are both raising more money than ever from the community -- which is a good thing, because other parts of their budget that depend on tax dollars are being cut. In lareg part, this is due to UC IMC doing its part to bring greater attention on the failings of the dominant media and the many alternatives that are available to it.
Fortunately, UC IMC does not depend on the taxpayers' money to sustain it. But donations for the building have really not impacted other fundraising connected with media projects at UC IMC.
In the last year, over $10,000 was raised to build a low power FM station, Radio Free Urbana -- something that really would not fit, let alone be worth the investment in renovations to accomodate it, at the Main St. space.
The Public i, the UC IMC monthly newspaper, is regularly bringing in what it needs to sustain itself. There might even be enough funding to sustain more frequent publication, say bi-weekly, but the group feels that quality will suffer if they're in a constant rush to get an issue out.
Our Shows group is very much looking forward to having its own performance space again for its all-ages shows. Their project has sustained itself for two years since the last performance space closed and will be able to bring in significant income when the new performance space is completed. Most of all, doing shows will be even more fun than it already is and this will build the group back to where they start having metings again with 20 or more people participating. UC IMC has also found that shows are aneffective outreach tactic to the community. Once people come into the IMC for a show, thay usually start asking about all the other things happening at UC IMC. Then many of them participate and join in making Indymedia.
The CU Wireless project, another UC IMC associated project, will soon bring free highspeed wireless internet access to all of downtown, as well as other parts of Urbana. Once it is up and running, the design implementation through open source software and cheap hardware of this project is specifically designed to provide a model for developing areas of the world to provide internet access for little to no cost to millions of people who might not otherwise get internet access before the 22nd century.
It is important to say that money isn't everything, but it does make possible lots of things. Money doesn't always reflect how a community supports Indymedia. There is no doubt that Indymedia recieves wide support in communities that can't afford to be as generous as ours. That is why UC IMC has supported projects outside the United States by fundraising and is one of the major reasons why UC IMC has done what it could to facilitate access to grant money incomunities both within and outside the US (note, that even while the 501c3 status is irrelevant outside the US, the sponsorship process is still needed by a number of autonomous IMC projects so that they can be accountable to funders.) But our community has repeatedly demonstrated financial, as well as other types of support, for UC IMC. It continues to show its support and UC IMC intends to honor that support as we build a stronger than ever Indymedia presence in our community.
The whining from a few trolls about the evils of money will be ignored like most other forms of irritating street preaching.
Unless you're posting from a public computer at an IMC or library, your comments were likely made possible by the fact that you can afford a computer and internet access. I personally will be happy to hear nothing from you after you've given up your hypocritical possessions, but please check in from a public terminal from time to time so that we will be reassured that you haven't starved to death because you are too pure to even beg for any of that hypocritical money to buy a sandwich.
UC IMC, despite the often ignorant and frequently antagonistic paranoia of some, fully realizes that its model is not for every IMC. But it is a model that is fully in step with Indymedia principles, it is a model that has received repeated consensus and generous support from our community, and it is a model that is financially sustainable. UC IMC doesn't want our community to ever be without Indymedia again and a permanent home that sits next to the symbols of state power in downtown Urbana is a powerful symbol that Indymedia is here to stay, as well as to grow access to ndymedia in our community.
The rather small group of critics who, strangely and hypocritically for people who claim they are trying to sustain an flimsy argument that the UC IMC model threatens their autonomy, seem to claim that they should be able to put a straightjacket requiring their stamp of approval on what UC IMC does. La Ley was right -- start showing up for meetings if you want to influence what UC IMC as an organization does.
There is no tiny cabal that made the PO building decision. It was made based on repeated consensus by the UC IMC membership.
True, some people are somewhat exercised about what Sascha said. They've been heard from. But to make a claim such as the troll's is simply crap.
All I can say about the troll's opinion and hypocrisy is, "If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." |
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Re: uc-imc needs your MONEY! |
by malatesta
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
27 May 2005
|
"Most of all, doing shows will be even more fun than it already is and this will build the group back to where they start having metings again with 20 or more people participating. "
That's what this is about, friends. Fun -- for 20 or more people. And that's fine. But your self-congratulatory notions that you're changing the world are simply delusional.
This is about "we want it, now we have, and you're mean for telling us it's not a wonderful thing."
Fine. I'm a troll. You're children, playing at activism.
People starve. Wars rage. You have fun. |
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Re: malatesta |
by 5
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
27 May 2005
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Yawn.
Guess what?
You don't *have* to agree with the purchase of a building. You are *not* a member of the collective who agreed to it. It's not against the law or illegal. And now other local groups can feel that *their* rent money can go to a group in solidarity.
You don't have to like money. And no one has to agree with you.
You don't have to worry about how the UCIMC is funding their IMC. The IMC members who have consensed to this decision do.
You don't have to monitor email lists of groups you so obviously detest. You don't have to bitch and moan about things that don't affect you. And no one has to listen to you.
I can't understand the naysayers---this isn't a surprise decision.
Malatesta, do you think that all the people who already attend meetings at the IMC and all the IMC members and all the activists in this community who have worked to have their issues covered in the Public i or on the radio show or all the musicians who have had shows at the IMC or all the artists who have displayed their work at the IMC or all the community members who helped make this building purchase possible by helping out with fundraising are all suddenly going to say....
AHA! I've been wrong.... The IMC is *bad*....
You are deluding yourself---and only yourself. |
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Re: uc-imc needs your MONEY! |
by Wow
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
27 May 2005
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Regular Reader / 5 -
and I thought Bush was adverse to criticism! |
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Re: uc-imc needs your MONEY! |
by Wow
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
27 May 2005
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Regular Reader / 5 -
and I thought Bush was adverse to criticism! |
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Re: uc-imc needs your MONEY! |
by me
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
27 May 2005
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i hope we can all consense that "consensed" is not a great addition to the English language |
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Re: uc-imc needs your MONEY! |
by 5
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
27 May 2005
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And criticism will be responded to. |
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Re: uc-imc needs your MONEY! |
by Wow
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
27 May 2005
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...with accusations of delusion. Congratulations Bushie! |
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Re: uc-imc needs your MONEY! |
by malatesta
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
27 May 2005
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You spend an awful lot of time dismissing trolls. If trolls are full of shit, why not ignore them? Hate to say this, but I think you folks actually like the trolls. You do seem to thrive on them.
As for the function of ucimc, virtually all of the postings over the past several weeks have been about ucimc. It's verging upon the narcissistic.
I challenge regular responders to go ONE WEEK with using the word "troll." Try rebutting arguments on their merits, without resorting to the epithet.
Consensus doesn't mean a goddamn thing if it results in foolish actions. The U.S. Congress "consensed" on Iraq.
And whathufuck kinda word is "consense" anyway? |
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Re: uc-imc needs your MONEY! |
by malatesta
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
27 May 2005
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When UC IMC got serious about moving forward with buying a building about three years ago, it consensed to begin the Capital Campaign. And our community responded by raising $75,000, without a specific building in mind.
This got me to wondering just how independent uc-imc really is. In all the defensive rhetoric, there have been repeated references to "the community."
I think those of us (yes, there are others besides myself) who are, shall we say, dubious of the entire fiasco, would find it useful, helpful, illuminating and comforting to see a list of contributors.
Does openness extend to such an idea? |
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Re: uc-imc needs your MONEY! |
by someone
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
27 May 2005
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Trolls and referrals to them are mainly appearing on this web when it is necessary to find scapegoats, like one of many someones has written. I am suspecting that if desired "openness" occurs, it would be some explanation of more than extremely strange (softly speaking) ideological and practical policies of ucimc. Maybe, that is why it would be impossible to obtain this "openness". Wish you luck though. |
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Fuck Off |
by rts
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
27 May 2005
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listen malatesta, if i can't dance, stay the fuck away from my revolution. you should be a damn republican -- if you're not already despite your progressive pretensions -- i hear some of them are against dancing, too.
if you ever did live in this town, people are glad you're gone. |
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Re: uc-imc needs your MONEY! |
by malatesta
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
27 May 2005
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Who donated the money? |
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sheesh! |
by bert
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
27 May 2005
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and people complain that UC IMC is obsessed with money?
i'm kinda a wannabee media activist, but i supported the capital campaign with a small donation. it was what i could afford at the time and i am looking forward to seeing the building after seeing the pictures here on the site. i heard there were several hundred local contributors.
why don't you ask where tim johnson gets his money and why so much goes up his nose? |
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Re: uc-imc needs your MONEY! |
by Hehe
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
27 May 2005
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bert -
So Tim takes it up the nose and you take it up the ass. Big deal, we're all takers in one way or another. |
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Re: uc-imc needs your MONEY! |
by Hehe
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
27 May 2005
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rts -
Where is the love man? Or is that just confined to your right hand and a bottle of lube? |
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Re: uc-imc needs your MONEY! |
by malatesta
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
27 May 2005
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So because I'm in flagrant disagreement with you I'm thereby a republican. Christ, dude, figure it out -- I'm an anarchist.
As for Congressman Tim, he actually does by law publish his donor lists. So do all congressmen/women and senators.
In the case of the seventy five grand for the clubhouse, there are a few possibilities. Either thousands of people gave small amounts, which may be true. Or a few people gave large amounts, with others such as yourself kicking in small change to round out the pot.
If a few did give, say, thousands of bucks, I'd be interested to know who they are. Indy media rests on the premise that no one has monetary influence. So if there is nothing like that going on here, y'all oughta be glad to refute it.
Besides, every organization I've ever given to does publish its donors, if only to acknowledge their gifts. That ucimc has not done so seems unusual. And it raises questions.
So, prove me wrong. Shoot me down. Publish the list. |
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Re: uc-imc needs your MONEY! |
by Joe Futrelle
futrelle (nospam) shout.net (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
27 May 2005
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Everyone ought to be concerned about how money is being spent.
When organizations ask for donations, their responsiblity is to make sure to be as transparent as possible about what they're spending the money on. That way, people who donate can make an informed choice.
As someone who donates money to various causes, I welcome any effort to provide me with more information about how my donations are being spent.
I actually don't much care about people's *opinions* about how organizations I donate money to are spending it, because it's my money, and my decision where to donate it.
Anyone who wants to participate in my decisions about what organizations, foundations, and projects to donate my money to had better respect my values and judgment of how I want my money spent. They don't have to agree with them, but they better damn well listen when I tell them what my criteria are for how I donate my money. If they dismiss my criteria without considering and understanding them then I see no reason to allow them to participate in the decision.
Which is what is so incredibly insulting about the whole line of argument that the UC-IMC is somehow misappropriating people's donations. Like the other recent poster, when I donated to the Capital Campaign I was aware what the money was for. I also knew that everyone, not just people donating, was welcome to participate in the UC-IMC's decision-making process about how to spend that money. I chose not to participate, preferring to sit on the sidelines. I have not been disappointed. Unlike other people, I do not have the slightest problem with the buildling purchase, and I find it insulting that critics are taking it upon themselves complain on my behalf that my money is being misappropriated, without even once asking me whether *I* think it is.
Predicting that the building is going to be completely useless to the community and will cost everyone a huge amount of money amounts to spreading Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt (FUD). The window of opportunity for this kind of campaign is closing, because the prediction that the building purchase will fail to benefit the community will either come true or not. Until then, it's just FUD. |
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Re: uc-imc needs your MONEY! |
by gehrig
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
27 May 2005
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So, let's just double check those irony meters. An anony-mouse is demanding names?
@%< |
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Re: uc-imc needs your MONEY! |
by someone
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
28 May 2005
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Unfortunately, this is like in the case of apology. There would be no disclosed list of contributors the same way as there were no apologies from the people who are the real offenders. After a while, if somehow survive with the help of the same secret contributors, those people would hide under loud slogans again what they are really doing and whose money they are doing it on. |
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Re: uc-imc needs your MONEY! |
by babs
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
28 May 2005
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The IMC was straightforward about what the capital campign money was for; it's not like they said, "hey, we're raising this money for organization X" and then pocketed it themselves.
People who donate to non-profits have the right to remain anonymous. Were I a contributor, I'd feel very uncomfortable if the IMC were to release my name simply because some anonymous person posted to the newswire wanting it. |
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Re: uc-imc needs your MONEY! |
by gehrig
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
28 May 2005
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babs: "Were I a contributor, I'd feel very uncomfortable if the IMC were to release my name simply because some anonymous person posted to the newswire wanting it."
That's exactly it. There's simply a limit to how seriously an anonym should be expected to be taken, especially when demanding the identities of others. And that limit has been passed. Unless "malatesta" has something new to say, rather than repeating the old arguments, I'd say that's that.
@%< |
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Re: uc-imc needs your MONEY! |
by someone
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
28 May 2005
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All churches, TV and radio stations, a lot of other non-profit organizations place the list of their contributors at their entrances, with the corresponding gratitude's expressions. However, ucimc has the different approach, like mob sponsored entities, and/or federal government agencies (CIA , for example). What can anyone conclude from it, ah?
It seems to me, that imc globally should introduce the rule (or law, if you like it more) to oblige any imc entity to disclose lists of its contributors. It should be the basic measure to assure the absence of basic governmental and not governmental corruption. It should become the ABC.... of all imc code of behavior !! |
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Re: uc-imc needs your MONEY! |
by someone
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
29 May 2005
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malatesta, I don't know who you are and what your position in imc network is, but I want to warn you, as this situation with ucimc is pretty clear and pretty crucial:
1. It is only normal to assume that there were some encouragement from people with serious power to produce Sascha Meinard's statements;
2. ucimc is refusing to disclose who donated this initial $75,000.00, and it is easy to assume that the source(s) are closely connected with this power;
3. Currently ucimc is fully dependent on this power, as they need not less than the same $75,000.00 yearly for its basic survival;
4. So, everything is pointing out that ucimc is fully ready to become the major provocateur of the very basic of the idea of free speech, placing it under the complete control of entities that are paying it to survive (I think that it is federal government).
So, malatesta, in my opinion, it should be the very disturbing signal for the entire imc network, isn't it? |
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Re: uc-imc needs your MONEY! |
by someone
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
29 May 2005
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Jack , the current situation might be a success for current federal government that you are always supporting , according to your comment when they are not hidden or deleted. Opposition can't be on payroll of those whom it is opposing. If it is so then this so namerd opposition is the complete fraud. It is obvious for everybody. I am following the example of 'one of many someones'. Chao. |
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Re: uc-imc needs your MONEY! |
by Nick Berveiler
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
30 May 2005
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Is it a crime to fundraise? Every non-profit organization I know of, including the one I work for, needs to fundraise. Maybe this whole argument is about the fact that every other IMC local in the US has not achieved 501(c)3 status and do not think in the same way as other non-profits do. I have no idea if other IMC's want 501(c)3 status although I bet that if they did, the UC-IMC would help them. Of course there is responisbility that goes along with becoming a mainstream organization and I think that the UC-IMC is doing a great job of becoming a mature organization from what I read about them on this website.
I think it is a shame that the global indymedia movement has to be so hell bent on being so anarchist. I live in Chicago and find my indymedia coverage to be quite dissapointing. If there was a physical location in Chicago for indymedia, I would probably support it in one way or another, by giving money or volunteering.
I have put up with a lot of stupid anarchist arguments when I was a student and I think that a lot of times it was because of some anarchist principle or another that people did not work together as much as they could have within progressive student organizations. Organizations need leadership to be successful and there is nothing wrong with providing leadership for a non-profit organization, especially considering that the UC-IMC is probably an oddity within the non-profit world because they do not have an executive director or any other sort of leadership position within their organization. |
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Re: uc-imc needs your MONEY! |
by Horizontal Jogger
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
31 May 2005
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Nick says: "I think it is a shame that the global indymedia movement has to be so hell bent on being so anarchist." - Too bad, because that's how it is.
"Organizations need leadership to be successful" - rubbish; Nick totally misses the point. A lot of what is so remarkable about Indymedia is that it succeeds *without* leadership. It's a demonstrator-project for non-hierarchical, consensus-based social organisation, and that's why it attracts anarchists.
And that, in turn, is why Indypeople all over the world got so exercised about the new "nexus", or "headquarters" or whatever it is that's supposedly been conferred on us. Me, I'm not angry; I think it's just ludicrously funny that UC IMC are stuck so far up their own mid-western arses. No apologies are needed, in fact apologies detract from the power of the joke.
Hey - it's cool that you got a nice space for your IMC. But remember that most other IMCs are autonomous, and organised without hierarchies. The very fact that we can do it without the help of leaders is our most powerful protection against anyone trying to pull off a coup, or impose a headquarters on us! |
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Re: uc-imc needs your MONEY! |
by student to other students
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
31 May 2005
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These people from ucimc didn't simply impose "quaters on us". They impose the heaviest censorship on EVERYTHING , which is supposed to be produced in ucimc. They, sure, would try to impose the same on other imc. That is why Sascha was trying to declare himself a director. It was the very serious mistake to nominate Danielle Chynoveth for local government. I wish we would not have paid so much for this mistake. I wish and hope that it wouldn't cost us a lot more in upcoming events. |
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Re: uc-imc needs your MONEY! |
by JPM
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
05 Jun 2005
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Sorry, Nick, but every 501 (c) 3 is required to acquire state recognized non-profit incorporation before applying for this tax exempt status - and produce a Board of Directors, or a list of responsible corporate officers, and meet certain reporting yearly reporting standards to the IRS. This varies from state to state. See http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/k1024.pdf
Whether this list of officers or BOD, bears any semblence, or has any accountibilty around how decisions are made by the group is the question here.
And that's one of the concerns many IMC's have - which has led other IMCs to avoid going through this tedious process, and instead seek a sponsor relationship with progressive 501(c) 3s that already exist. The benefits of this relationship are often the same, - applying for grants ect - with far fewer pitfalls.
The 501 C3 in your area that has provided this service for a number of alternative media groups in the Chicago area has been 'Networking for Democracy" Such groups usually assess a 2-5 annual percent fee for handling the paperwork and reporting requirments.
In the interest of transparency ( an IMC POU) UC-IMC should provide that information. |
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Re: uc-imc needs your MONEY! |
by gehrig
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
06 Jun 2005
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An ad-hoc group has been tasked with exactly that mission -- to provide a clear explanation of what it means to say UC-IMC is a 501c3 and to describe what its relationship is to other charitable organizations (including the Global Indymedia network and other IMC collectives).
There's a lot of misinformation flying around out there, and this site will soon (i.e. in a matter of weeks) have a permanent page dedicated to explaining this stuff.
@%< |
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Re: uc-imc needs your MONEY! |
by curious
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
12 Jun 2005
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The same old, the same old. Now offended mainly by DC and SM actions other imc are manipulated to be united on the same old as the world platform of the blind destruction without ANY REAL positive alternative of what should be instead. The orgy of the destroying! Maybe, it would give the presidential election of 2008 the positive push, showing very clearly by comparison that the only reasonable candidate for presidential position at the point of USA internal and external welfare - Howard Dean is in reality no socialist, communist , anarchist, as media channels have tried to present him, but fiscal conservative and social liberal-democrat with courage, intelligence and the proven records of positive leadership's achievement, though on smaller scale. Let us hope on the best! |
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