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News :: Civil & Human Rights |
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Holocaust Remembrance on Campus |
Current rating: 0 |
by Born to the Tribe
(No verified email address) |
05 May 2005
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From the DI May 4
Jewish victims of the Holocaust were honored Tuesday with a reading of victim's names on the Quad to commemorate Yom Hashoah: Holocaust Remembrance Day. |
Yom Hashoah, which will begin tonight and last until Thursday evening, was declared a national holiday in Israel in 1961 and is celebrated by Jewish communities across the world.
Members of the Hillel Leadership Committee, a Jewish foundation, took turns to read names out loud between 11 a.m. to 3 p.m. to honor the six million victims killed.
"I am actively involved in Hillel," said Lindsey Epstein, one of the readers and freshman in LAS. "I think it's really important to be involved."
On a nearby table, six flowers were placed next to six burning candles that represented the six million victims killed.
The Holocaust, the Greek meaning for "sacrifice by fire," was the systematic murder of millions of Jews under the Nazi regime headed by Adolf Hitler, according to a handout from Hillel. Men, women and children killed in the Holocaust came from France, Poland, the former Soviet Union, Germany, Austria and many other European countries. Sixty years after the Holocaust, the memory of the victims and the suffering of the Jews live on.
"Yom Hashoah is a day designated to remember the victims and what they gave up and what they have taught us," said Shoshana Hindin, education committee chair for Hillel and senior in LAS. "It will be sad if all those people and everything they went through is forgotten."
For over 80 years, Hillel has been the foundation for students of Jewish background on campus to celebrate Jewish life and history. The Hillel committee at the University participates in this event every year, according to the Hillel Web site, to try to educate people about the horrors of the Holocaust.
Hindin said a museum in Israel has a database of all the names of those killed, which takes up more than 80 pages.
Meredith Rohter, sophomore in LAS, said it is important to remember what happened.
"If we forget, it's more likely to happen again," Rohter said.
Hindin said the holiday should not be seen as just part of Jewish history, but as a warning for future generations.
"(Yom Hashoah) is a reminder of what could happen in the world and that it could happen to anyone," Hindin said. |
This work is in the public domain |
Comments
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Re: Holocaust Remembrance on Campus |
by gehrig
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
05 May 2005
|
Either Hindin or the reporter is a little bit off the mark about the list at Yad Vashem, the Holocaust museum in Israel (which has recently undergone a large reservation, and which Putin visited when he buzzed through Israel). There is no master list that has the name of every Jew who died in the Holocaust, but Yad Vashem has been collecting information for decades and has the name of about three million -- certainly far more than "80 pages" worth.
It's also not too swift to call Yom HaShoah "a national holiday" rather than a national day of mourning.
@%< |
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Actually... |
by x
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
07 May 2005
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Yom Hashoah is the typical result of zionists claiming the holocaust for their own personal gain.
First of all this entails pretending that only jews are killed, whereas together and before they annihilated european jewry, the nazis killed political dissidents, the mentally handicapped, homosexuals and the roma and sinti. Only a racist homophobic hater of handicapped people would single out the jewish aspect.
Secondly, jewish victims of the nazis overwhelmingly spoke Yiddish and not Hebrew, yet they give the day a hebrew name. Hebrew was construed by zionists based on the language jews spoke thousands of years ago. The use of yiddish has been discouraged and the language is now virtually dead, thanks to the nazis and the zionists. |
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Re: Holocaust Remembrance on Campus |
by y
y (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
08 May 2005
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Yom Hashoah is not at all a zionist remembrance day. It is a day for Jews and others to remember the tragedy that was the holocaust. Is it so aweful for a people to recognize and remember that 6 million of them have been brutally killed. The mourning on yom hashoah is not meant to ignore the other millions that were killed. Many suffered under the nazis, including many 'real' Germans. But, if you know the history of nazi persecution, you cannot deny that Jews were targetted above all others. This does not and should not take away from the remembrance of others, it is just a recognition. The day is especially important to Jewish families who lost loved ones. The writer of the 'x' comment is accusing all those who recognize Yom Hashoah as being a valid remembrance day of being racist homophobes. I don't know where 'X' pulled that idea that Jews ignore the others that were killed or that they could ever find a way to use the holocaust for their own gain. It obviously was a tragedy. 'X' has a strong personal agenda against zionists, so anything he or she says about yom hashoah or Jews, is bent to push his or her racist argument. Yes racist. If you don't think Jews are worthy of remembering their own people, you must believe Jews are less worthy that others. I question whether 'x' knows what zionism is. |
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Re: Holocaust Remembrance on Campus |
by x
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
08 May 2005
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"Yom Hashoah is not at all a zionist remembrance day. It is a day for Jews and others to remember the tragedy that was the holocaust."
Yet the wording is hebrew, a language introduced by zionists and not spoken by the vast majority of jewish holocaust victims. Furthermore the remembrance day only remembers about jewish victims, forgetting all the other people that were systematically killed by the nazis, like roma, sinti, homosexuals, dissidents, mentally handicapped, the slavic people.
"But, if you know the history of nazi persecution, you cannot deny that Jews were targetted above all others."
I know the history, and apparently you don't. As you should know, the dissidents went first, then the mentally handicapped. In percentages, more sinti and roma were killed, in absolute numbers more slavic people. The idea that jews were targetted above all others is a modern invention.
"The day is especially important to Jewish families who lost loved ones"
And you are their official spokesperson?
"The writer of the 'x' comment is accusing all those who recognize Yom Hashoah as being a valid remembrance day of being racist homophobes."
I didn't say that, you liar.
"I don't know where 'X' pulled that idea that Jews ignore the others that were killed or that they could ever find a way to use the holocaust for their own gain."
I'm jewish myself. My complaint was about zionists. Once again, anti-zionist commentary is misrepresented as anti-semitism, how familiar.
"'X' has a strong personal agenda against zionists, so anything he or she says about yom hashoah or Jews, is bent to push his or her racist argument."
Since Zionism isn't a race, anti-zionism isn't a form of racism. Actually I'm anti-zionist because of zionism's anti-unversalist values, amounting to racism towards any non-jews, in particular non-jews in the way of zionist objectives, such as Palestinians. .
"If you don't think Jews are worthy of remembering their own people, you must believe Jews are less worthy that others."
I don't think zionists should dictate how the holocaust is remembered. As I mentioned before I'm jewish myself.
"I question whether 'x' knows what zionism is."
I know all too well what zionism is. I question whether you do and I question whether you have any clue on the nature of nazi persecution, nazism itself, and the history of holocaust remembrance in the united states and in israel. |
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Re: Holocaust Remembrance on Campus |
by gehrig
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
08 May 2005
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troll: "Only a racist homophobic hater of handicapped people would single out the jewish aspect."
* yawn *
@%< |
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Re: Holocaust Remembrance on Campus |
by x
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
08 May 2005
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"* yawn *"
It would ofcourse be too much to ask to respond to the point I made. |
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Re: Holocaust Remembrance on Campus |
by gehrig
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
08 May 2005
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What's to respond to? One third of the world's Jews were wiped out in a continent-wide pogrom, but you somehow think we have no right to a day of remembrance, and you attack Yom haShoah as an ee-e-e-evil Zi-i-i-ionist plot to sap and impurify your bodily fluids.
It's a textbook example of someone throwing around the word "Zionist" to delegitimize the Jewish historical experience. I can't tell if you're channeling Norman Finkelstein or David Irving.
And your evidence for your peculiar stance is that "Yom haShoah" is Hebrew, not Yiddish -- as if the Torah the Jews of Europe read from every week, and the prayers they recited, were in some other language than Hebrew. And as if there were lots of other time-based observances in the Jewish calendar whose name is in Yiddish rather than Hebrew. (As far as I know, there's only one, the yahrzeit. Perhaps you could supply the comprehensive list of others, which you need to support your "case"?)
And on this single strand of spiderweb, you want to hang the argument that those who commemorate Yom haShoah as a Jewish event are "racist homophobic haters of handicapped people."
That's the level of argument I'd expect from David Green. Pardon me for forgetting to be impressed.
@%< |
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Re: Holocaust Remembrance on Campus |
by x
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
08 May 2005
|
"What's to respond to?"
I'll tell you... once again...
"One third of the world's Jews were wiped out in a continent-wide pogrom, but you somehow think we have no right to a day of remembrance, and you attack Yom haShoah as an ee-e-e-evil Zi-i-i-ionist plot to sap and impurify your bodily fluids."
Just as in the article you put together a bunch of claims:
1. that it's jews that need to be remembered, not a wide range of people, including dissidents, handicapped, homosexual, slavic, sinti and roma people
2. That the day of remembrance should be given a name in Hebrew, a language the vast majority of victims (including the jews) didn't speak
3. that you/the inventors of yom hashoa can speak on behalf of the victims
All these point to a certain conclusion, namely that yom hashoa has been created to cast the nazi crimes in a form, useful to a particular political cause, namely zionism.
"It's a textbook example of someone throwing around the word "Zionist" to delegitimize the Jewish historical experience. I can't tell if you're channeling Norman Finkelstein or David Irving."
Ofcourse, since you know nothing about the actual nazi genocide, you can't tell the difference between the child of auschwitz survivors and a holocaust-revisionist. Additionally, I don't see why zionists should exclusively decide what the "Jewish historical experience" entails.
"And your evidence for your peculiar stance is that "Yom haShoah" is Hebrew, not Yiddish -- as if the Torah the Jews of Europe read from every week, and the prayers they recited, were in some other language than Hebrew."
If you had any actual knowledge on european jewry during the nazi reign, you might have known that:
1. Hebrew as it's spoken today is a modern invention by zionists
2. Hebrew as used in the Torah was only known among religious jewry
3. Jews in central/western europe were tending more and more towards secularism and assimilation.
4. The Nazi's didn't think the distinction between religious and non-religious jews was very important.
5. The choice of a hebrew name for the remembrance day has nothing to do with religion and everything with hebrew being the language of Israel.
" And as if there were lots of other time-based observances in the Jewish calendar whose name is in Yiddish rather than Hebrew. "
Why o why should a remembrance day for victims of nazi genocide be limited to the "jewish calendar"? How does a "time-based observance" become part of the "jewish calendar"? When Israel declares it a national holiday?
"And on this single strand of spiderweb, you want to hang the argument that those who commemorate Yom haShoah as a Jewish event are "racist homophobic haters of handicapped people.""
I want to hang on the argument that those who knowingly and willingly think that nazis performed a genocide on jews alone are guilty of revisionism. Those that consider the nazi genocidal programs against jews as more significant/serious/imporant than those against other groups I would certainly consider racist and homophobic. However, fair is fair, in our modern time of politically inspired moral indignation, I can't blame the ignorant for believing what they are taught by our great mainstream culture. My expletives are therefore directed against people that should know better. People like you perhaps.
"That's the level of argument I'd expect from David Green. Pardon me for forgetting to be impressed."
I have idea who David Green is. |
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Re: Holocaust Remembrance on Campus |
by gehrig
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
08 May 2005
|
So your response is the same vacuous shit, just spread a little wider and with lots of fun accusations about how I don't know the history of modern Hebrew or the Holocaust or anything else. (You are, trust me, very much barking up the wrong tree with that one.)
And you're so warped by your hatred of Zi-i-i-ionism that you think it's somehow inherently wrong and immoral for the Jews -- not the Zionists but the Jews -- to commemorate their victims of Nazism -- that is, one third of the world's Jewish population at the time.
That's a pretty screwed up position.
But, hey, let's play your game. You rail against "those who knowingly and willingly think that nazis performed a genocide on jews alone."
Who is that?
Step up to the plate and name any Jewish or Zionist organization that denies that the Nazis killed the handicapped in the T4 program, or that Roma were also rounded up (although not with the same zeal).
Go ahead. Point me to the Zi-i-i-ionists or Jews who do that. You _can_ do that, can't you? Please do so now.
@%< |
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Aren't You Ashamed? |
by Uri Avnery
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
08 May 2005
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The car stopped for a moment. An elderly lady pushed her head out of the window and shouted; "Aren't you ashamed of yourselves? Today is Holocaust Day, and you are demonstrating for Arabs?!"
The cause of her anger was a large group of demonstrators opposite the Ministry of Defense in Tel-Aviv, last Thursday, the official Holocaust Memorial Day in Israel. Many things happened on that day.
Thousands of Israelis flew to Poland, to take part in the annual "March of Life" between the two death camps whose very names inspire dread: Auschwitz and Birkenau.
In Auschwitz, an official ceremony was held. Ariel Sharon made a political speech to promote his political agenda. He reminded the Israelis how the world had kept silent during the Holocaust, and asserted that now, too, we should not trust the world. Elie Wiesel, the inevitable Holocaust cultist, with his inevitable tortured expression, delivered his inevitable speech. For the guests of honor, places of honor were reserved, according to rank, in the first rows of the white plastic chairs.
It was another official ceremony, much like hundreds of other official ceremonies held for some purpose and on some subject or other, an occasion for politicians to utter their platitudes. The real content, the world-embracing human lesson of the Holocaust, was lost between the ceremonies and the words.
At the same time, another group of 7000 Israelis left for Moscow. Not to celebrate the victory over the Nazis 60 years ago, in which the Red Army played such an important role, nor to thank the veterans for liberating the death camps and putting an end to the extermination. No, they were accompanying a basketball team.
Israel is a global basketball power. The victories of its teams abroad fill the average Israeli with national pride. The match in Moscow was very important, and while it went on, life in this country almost came to a standstill. Everybody was following the game on State Television.
Is the preoccupation with basketball on Holocaust Day, of all days, proper? On the face of it, no. The Holocaust was the defining event in the Jewish history of the last century, and perhaps of all times. It was a warning to all humanity. Is it fitting to be occupied with a sports event on such a day?
My answer is yes. I am not a very enthusiastic sports fan. But sport, too, symbolizes the fact that the Jews have survived the Holocaust, that Jewish life is thriving in many places around the world. Adolf Hitler swore to eradicate "World Jewry" once and for all, together with the "Asiatic Hordes" of Russia. And here, 60 years after his sordid end in the Berlin Bunker, Israeli sportsmen compete in Moscow. One can be happy about that.
At the very same time, the spontaneous demonstration in front of the Defense Ministry in Tel-Aviv was taking place. Its purpose was to protest the killing of two Palestinian boys, aged 14 and 15, at Beit Likiya village, during a demonstration against the Fence.
Beit Likiya lies some kilometers south of Bil'in, the site of the large demonstration I reported on last week. The circumstances are similar: the land of Beit Likiya is also being stolen by the Fence. The bulldozers work from morning to night and their rattle, rather like a continuous burst of heavy-machine-gun fire, resonates around all the villages in the vicinity.
The villagers know that beyond this fence, on their land, their source of livelihood for many generations, new neighborhoods of the nearby settlement will be built. Like the villagers of Bil'in, they protest every day. Men, women and children march towards the armed soldiers, with blaring loudspeakers, lying down on the ground, chaining themselves to their olive trees, and sometimes the youngsters of the village throw stones and are brutally driven away by the soldiers.
When Jewish Israelis take part in the demonstrations, the soldiers generally use tear gas, stun grenades, rubber-coated steel bullets, and now also salt-bullets. When there are no Jews around, they may use live ammunition, too.
This time, a group of soldiers stood facing the village boys, who threw stones. Nobody was seriously hurt. Nobody's life was in danger. But the commander, a lieutenant, fired live rounds. Two boys were killed.
One of the boys was wounded only in the thigh. The wound was probably not mortal, but the boy was left to bleed to death. The army did not treat him, as it would have treated a wounded soldier. It seems that an ambulance from the village was not able to approach.
Within a few hours, Israeli peace activists mounted a protest. The call was transmitted by word of mouth, by phone and e-mail. About 250 men and women gathered in front of the Defense Ministry, many young people, not a few elderly ones, among them some from the Holocaust generation. Some of the drivers using this central Tel-Aviv artery raised their thumbs or sounded their horn in support. Others disapproved, like the shouting woman.
How can one demonstrate for Arabs, especially on Holocaust Day?
Well, it's a good question. And there is a good answer.
The answer expresses one of the lessons to be drawn from the Holocaust, a lesson that should be raised like a banner on Holocaust Day:
That decent persons must come to the aid of a persecuted minority.
That loyalty to your country does not justify agreement with the occupation of another country and the oppression of another people.
That you must not accept an ideology telling you that you belong to a master nation, to a superior race, to a chosen people - and that other people are inferior and subhuman.
The use of lethal force on Palestinian demonstrators, even when they throw stones, expresses abysmal contempt for the life of non-Jews. That same officer would not have fired on Jewish demonstrators in similar circumstances. The thought would not even have crossed his mind. But Palestinians, and Arabs generally, are not considered full human beings.
Opening live fire on unarmed 14 and 15- year old boys shows a deeply-rooted racist mentality. The boys' age was clear to the officer who shot them. They could not have "endangered his life", as he claims, if they had not been quite close. He certainly would have found other ways to drive them off if they had been the children of orthodox Jews or settlers.
The protection of children is a profound human instinct. A person must be a hatred-ridden racist, or have a twisted mind, for this instinct to be put out of action, whatever the origin of the boys.
There is no more appropriate day to protest against such an act, and the mental attitudes lurking behind it, than Holocaust Day.
That morning, the newspaper Haaretz presented its readers with a nice gift: every copy of the paper came with a large national flag attached. One woman took this flag, painted a blood-red stain on it and held it aloft throughout the demonstration.
Should she be ashamed of herself? On the contrary. I think that she expressed the spirit of Holocaust Day better than any other person in Israel or at the Auschwitz ceremony.
http://www.amin.org/eng/uri_avnery/2005/may7.html |
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Re: Holocaust Remembrance on Campus |
by gehrig
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
08 May 2005
|
So next up, apparently, comes the big blobs of cut and paste from folks as far out as the Israel-is-always-wrong Dr Avnery.
@%< |
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Re: Holocaust Remembrance on Campus |
by x
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
09 May 2005
|
"So your response is the same vacuous shit, just spread a little wider and with lots of fun accusations about how I don't know the history of modern Hebrew or the Holocaust or anything else. (You are, trust me, very much barking up the wrong tree with that one.)"
Well, you would have fooled me.
"And you're so warped by your hatred of Zi-i-i-ionism that you think it's somehow inherently wrong and immoral for the Jews -- not the Zionists but the Jews -- to commemorate their victims of Nazism -- that is, one third of the world's Jewish population at the time."
Once again you mix up jews and zionists. If Israel invents a day to commemorate just the jewish victims of the nazis and I consider that morally wrong, I'm an anti-semite, right?
"That's a pretty screwed up position.
But, hey, let's play your game. You rail against "those who knowingly and willingly think that nazis performed a genocide on jews alone."'
Ofcourse whenever I misplace a word (in this quoted sentence "think" should have been "pretend") ofcourse you can act as if you don't know what I mean. Responding to my point would be too much for you.
"Who is that?
Step up to the plate and name any Jewish or Zionist organization that denies that the Nazis killed the handicapped in the T4 program, or that Roma were also rounded up (although not with the same zeal).
Go ahead. Point me to the Zi-i-i-ionists or Jews who do that. You _can_ do that, can't you? Please do so now."
Well, there you go. "not with the same zeal". Yet, in proportion, the genocide of the roma was worse than that of jews. The handicapped were exterminated before the genocide of the jews even started. Why do you pretend genocide of these two classes of people wasn't performed with "the same zeal"?
Ofcourse, generally the crime isn't so much flat out denying, but, more subtly, ignoring and downplaying the inconvenient "other" genocides by the nazis.
If you'd like a response to your next contribution to this posting, I would suggest you spend more time answering the points I made. |
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Re: Holocaust Remembrance on Campus |
by gehrig
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
09 May 2005
|
x: "Well, you would have fooled me"
That's apparently an easy thing to do. Somebody, for instance, has fooled you into thinking Yom haShoah is a "Zionist" day of commemoration rather than a Jewish one.
x: "Once again you mix up jews and zionists. If Israel invents a day to commemorate just the jewish victims of the nazis and I consider that morally wrong, I'm an anti-semite, right?"
Sorry, you're the one mixing up Jews and Zionists by insisting that you've got to be a Zionist to mark Yom haShoah, and that the very existence of a day in which the Jews honor their Holocaust dead is a Zi-i-i-ionist plot. That's quite a fantastic misrepresentation.
I have asked you to name any other calendrical observation with a Yiddish name. You could not. Why? Because there is none. That makes a hash of your claim that there's something inherently freaky with the phrase "Yom haShoah" being in Hebrew. Your implicit argument, apparently, is that if people weren't speaking Hebrew in the streets, then they couldn't possibly have decided to give the day a Hebrew name -- just like every other important day in the calendar has a Hebrew name. That's simply a ridiculous stance.
Although not as ridiculous as the really quite funny claim of yours that one must be "a racist homophobic hater of handicapped people" to see why Jews would want to commemorate their Holocaust dead. Would you like to reword that too?
@%< |
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David Green |
by Ricky Baldwin
baldwinricky (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
09 May 2005
|
gehrig-
From what I've read here, I really don't think 'x' is worthy of the compliment: "That's the level of argument I'd expect from David Green."
I also think your point was much stronger when you were attacking clearly ludicrous statements -- like "only a racist [...etc.]" would participate in a remembrance of millions of Nazi victims if it doesn't include them all.
It really helps no one to gratuitously insult other people like Dave Green who regularly make legitimate and important criticisms of Israeli government policy, leaders of groups that favor those policies, etc. Nobody's perfect, of course, but if you have a disagreement with Dave Green or Finkelstein, or someone else, it would be much more valuable (especially in a public forum like this) to raise your issues of disagreement and hash them out in a way that others can follow.
It's an emotionally heated topic, of course, with good reason. And the historical issues are important and relevant. That's precisely why thoughtful, committed and principled dissent (like Dave Green's) is essential. That's the point, I believe, of the article posted above, and also why it's important not to lump together serious criticisms with the other kind. |
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Re: Holocaust Remembrance on Campus |
by gehrig
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
09 May 2005
|
But the idea that "Yom haShoah" is in essence anti-gentile because "it's Zionist, not Jewish" is just as ludicrous a statement as "you'd have to be a racist homophobic etc." It wildly distorts the origins of the day, the meaning of the day, and the way the day is honored. And, as I said before, it tosses about the word "Zionist" as a way to delegitimize and denegrate a day dedicated to an important facet of the Jewish historical experience.
It's a common enough meme -- another one that Finkelstein and Irving share -- that Jews are "too possessive" about the Holocaust, and want to sweep its non-Jewish elements under the rug because they want to claim "our suffering is worse than your suffering." The problem is, if you take a look at how Yom haShoah is actually marked, you'll see it's just not the case.
Does anyone really believe that there were no Holocaust memorial days before 1959, the year Israel made Yom haShoah a commemorative day, and that the day is therefore actually a Zionist plot?
And from today's perspective, has no one actually _been_ to a Holocaust memorial service in which, along with the six candles honoring the six million, a seventh candle is specifically lit in honor of the non-Jews who were caught up in the Holocaust, or who tried to save Jews from it? When I lived in Springfield, I was part of a synagogue choir that provided music every year for the state's annual commemoration -- the one addressed by Jim Edgar, when he was Guv, and later George Ryan. And there was always a seventh candle -- a candle that's apparently being Finkelsteined out of the Yom haShoah picture here, intentionally or not, to make the event seem parochial.
The reason I single out Finkelstein is that this is an area in which Finkelstein is particularly duplicitous. He's quite infamous for distorting the positions of Holocaust historians like Deborah Lipstadt, jamming words into their mouths they never said, and then flogging them for their "racist exclusivism." No less a lesser light than Ward Campbell called Lipstadt "identical to Adolf Eichmann" for saying the Holocaust was a unique event in history.
But, see, it _was_ a unique event, just like any historical event of such a scale is a unique event. You can't put every tragedy into a historical blender, puree it, and then call the mush "holocausts." Lipstadt explicitly says that her comment is not about "the business of comparative suffering," as she is routinely accused of by the Finkelstein crowd, but the simple acknowledgement that any historical event of that scale is a unique product of unique circumstances. She was objecting -- quite rightly -- to the tendency to call some of the most bizarre things under the sun "another Holocaust" -- things like PETA's infamous "Holocaust on a Plate" campaign, an utterly appalling bit or which they have recently apologized.
But for suggesting that not everything called a Holocaust is a Holocaust, Lipstadt gets called "identical to Adolf Eichmann" by Ward Churchill before he used the same line about the folks in the WTC, and she gets -- frankly -- lied and slandered about by Norm Finkelstein, who parodies her position and then flogs her over the parody.
And, sadly, the Jewish question _was_ central to the Holocaust. That's simple historical fact. Note that I am _not_ saying that this makes the Roma's suffering or the dead in Tiergarten-4 any less dead, or their death any less tragic, although "x" has tried to shoehorn that position into my mouth. The Roma and the Sinti couldn't have been sent to the Aktion Reinhardt death camps if those camps hadn't already been built for some other reason. And what was that other reason? Something about... something about... oh, wait, I can't say it, or else I'll be accused Finkelstein-style of belittling the suffering of non-Jews.
@%< |
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