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Dave Gehrig: A Convert to Judaism Who Has Become the Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org |
Current rating: 0 |
by David Green
Email: davegreen48 (nospam) yahoo.com (verified)
Phone: 840-3979 |
17 Apr 2005
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It would behoove the moderators of ucimc.org to decide whether they want a site for serious debate on the issues, or simply an outlet for people like Dave Gehrig to deal in casual innuendo and overt character assassination. |
Dave Gehrig has responded to my writing on many occasions, but not once has he engaged the substance of what I've had to say. Instead, he suggests that I provide a front for anti-Semites posing as anti-Zionists, and hurls a personal insult or two to prove his point.
In doing so, Gehrig engages in everything from character assassination ("tonedeaf asshole," see below) to casual innuendo, stating that I provide support for anti-Semitism. It would behoove the moderators of this website whether they want to foster intelligent discussion, or simply provide a forum for self-righteous non-activist woodworkers like Gehrig to make a very small name for themselves by slamming others.
So what are the guidelines?
I've made an effort to write conscientious posts on important international and local issues, with plenty of documentation. I have criticized public figures--including Omer Bartov--based on their words and behavior. I have made my views public, including in hostile environments, only to have them misrepresented by the skulking Gehrig, as in the post below. Gehrig, who I have been led to believe is a convert to Judaism, must show his bona fides as a protector of the faith, albeit one that he is not known to practice it in any way, shape, or form. This is just the sort of problem created by Zionism as right-wing movement that has gained quite an appeal with privileged right-wing white males looking to identify with victims. Having grown up Jewish in the 1950s, I would add that I know what anti-Semtisim is through personal experience. Gehrig certainly does not. That he would accuse me of supporting anti-Semitism is simply perverse.
In May of 2002, I brought an Israeli refusenik to town, who was praised by Gehrig for his moderation. But of course Gehrig never has a word to say against the occupation, and wouldn't lift a finger to do what I did in going to the great effort of having the speaker here. Gehrig postures himself in the liberal Jewish center. But of course regarding Israel, the liberal Jewish center is no different than the right-wing Jewish establishment--the same establishment that would not allow the refusenik to speak at Sinai Temple, the same establishment that never says a word in criticism of even the most rabid Jewish settlers.
Gehrig has never criticized the nasty, hateful, and racist speakers that have come through this community and campus on a consistent basis, sponsored by local Jewish organizations, such as Ayn Rander Yaron Brook. The most recent was Jerusalem Post editor David Horowitz, who in a talk at Hillel argued that Yassir Arafat's death was a good thing, and (refreshingly) was reportedly met with intense criticism for celebrating the death of a human being by a local Jewish student with a shred of decency.
It's fine that some folks want to pontificate and vent rather than actually doing something to make the world a better place. But it would behoove the moderators if this website that they should do so in a respectful way that sticks to content rather than personal attack.
There need to be some guidelines drawn, and enforced.
These are a couple of recent Gehrig posts:
April 1, 2005
Granted, Dave Green's writing is usually so scattershot it's hard to tell what he's on about. But part of his intent in this article is clearly to try to delegitimize the charge of antisemitism in the context of anti-Zionism, to try to make it easier to sweep it under the rug. And that's a bad thing.
Especially considering that, by demonstrating unintentionally just how simple it is to use antisemitic sources, Green ended up doing the opposite. Instead of proving that the whole issue is one cynically manufactured from thin air by Zionists, Green instead showed that the issue isn't a manufactured one at all, but a genuine concern based on genuine fact.
Among anti-Zionists -- and unique among all forms of racial prejudice -- accusations of antisemitism are declared _a priori_ to be false and ignored.
If you don't see the moral problem with that, look closer.
Feb 25, 2005
Sorry, but I lost it laughing when _you_ accused _Bartov_ of a "tantrum," given the fact that your flailing attempt to shout Bartov down in one of your characteristicly scattershot jeremiads last September was so awful in its pure out-of-control rudeness that both the moderator and a member of the audience felt the need to apologize on your behalf.
Funny how you left that part out.
And your condescending parody of Bartov's film lecture, and the audience reaction to it, is so wildly off the mark that it's hard to beleive we saw the same one. I'm sorry to hear that you had such trouble following the lecture; the rest of the audience apparently didn't, judging from the Q&A session. However, the smug hatred of the CU Jewish community which informs your description of it -- "a numbed, mystified audience consisting mostly of elderly Jews, the more fortunate among them being hard of hearing" -- tells much more about you than it does about the actual event.
Have you ever wondered whether the almost universal dislike with which you are held by the CU Jewish community may not be because you're a dashingly prophetic anti-Zionist martyr, but simply because you're a tonedeaf asshole, one who can't see how you drive others in the Jewish community away with the unrestrained slash-and-burn shrillness of your screeds? |
This work is in the public domain |
Comments
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Re: Dave Gehrig: A Convert to Judaism Who Has Become the Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org |
by gehrig
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
17 Apr 2005
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And so much for Dave Green.
@%< |
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Re: Dave Gehrig: A Convert to Judaism Who Has Become the Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org |
by 3rd party observer
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
17 Apr 2005
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To which -- both Green and Gehrig -- I say, a plague on both your houses. Both of you are exemplars of the demonization of those with whom you disagreee. Both of you engage in intemperate, self-congratulatory rhetoric. Both of you are fully and irretrivably invested in your own positions. Both of you refuse to entertain that idea that there might be ambituities and complexities in the issue. There is only black and white, good and evil, right and wrong. You deserve each other. |
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Re: Dave Gehrig: A Convert to Judaism Who Has Become the Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org |
by La Ley
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
17 Apr 2005
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I think that the IMC should provide a forum for all points of view, both that of the "self-righteous non-activist woodworkers like Gehrig," as well as that of the self-righteous activist woodworkers like David Green, so long as they are presented in a respectful manner. You both could tone it down a little bit. Reflect on what you're saying, how it sounds, and what you're trying to accomplish. If you want to alienate everyone and have them ignore you, continue what you're doing. The moderators are doing an excellent job--I see no reason to lecture them on their responsibilities. |
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Re: Dave Gehrig: A Convert to Judaism Who Has Become the Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org |
by ari
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
17 Apr 2005
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A careful, dispassionate and candid assessment of D. Gehrig's posts to this site has led many local IMC readers to one inescapable conclusion. - that Gehrig remains an apologist for Israeli human rights violations and exults in his role as troll...across the IMC network.
Lots of ambient noise, very little signal. |
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Re: Dave Gehrig: A Convert to Judaism Who Has Become the Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org |
by marat
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
17 Apr 2005
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Gehrig's penchant for ad honimen attacks seems to become pronounced when he's on the losing side of an argument. When you can't kick, punt. |
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Some Useful Editorial Clarifications |
by ML
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
18 Apr 2005
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As one of the editors here on UC IMC, I think some clarifications are in order. First of all, to avoid confusion, I will refer to the two parties by their last names, with no disrespect for either one intended.
#1 At UC IMC, we do not have any position called "Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org" and the insinuation that Gehrig somehow represents the view or opinion of UC IMC, as is implied by Green's headline, is simply mistaken.
#2 It probably would result in a more positive discussion if Gehrig tried to avoid the somewhat insulting one-liners and stick to the issues, which I know he is completely capable of.
#3 UC IMC offers a forum for a variety of viewpoints. We do not take particular political positions, leaving it to the reader how to best sort out conflicting claims. While we realize that the issue of Israel/Palestine is one of the most contentious and stubborn sources of frequently deadly conflict and generates lots of comments, such conflict will not be resolved by who can get who banned on any particular IMC. Thus, whoever's side you may feel closer to, you are just as likely to run across something that will offend you here as not. That's not our problem -- it's yours. Get over it.
#4 Editing on UC IMC follows a fairly strictly drawn set of guidelines and a wider, more philosophical stance. We do not "moderate" people based on what they believe or express, despite the views of a couple of trolls that this is what happens to them. We deal almost exclusively with troublesome posts on the basis of patterns of behavior, rather than the content of any single post, in that we prefer to maintain an IMC that is open to a healthy and wide-ranging debate on the issues.
I have a great deal of respect for both sides in this particular debate -- although they have seen fit so far to mostly talk past one another, which can be a good thing as long as everyone has equal access -- as well as a weariness that accompanies any conflict where the parties are seemingly insensitive to the fact that they are going to have to live -- or die -- with each other.
If the above doesn't help make things more clear, then I suggest dropping a note to the imc-web (no spam) ucimc.org Web Editorial list, where such concerns can be more effectively addressed. We will take your complaints under advisment.
However, everyone should realize that we operate on a consensus basis, so any proposal you may have that is personally satisfying to you will be looked at with the cold eye of whether or not it promotes open dialogue, while staying within the bounds of our tried and tested editorial policy that takes seriously Indymedia principles. The result will either be something you and your political opponents can both agree on or it will be something we at the IMC can agree on, but which you may regret -- sorry, that's the best we can do. The thing we judge here is your behavior, not your politics. If you're expecting something else, then there's still plenty of room available on the Internet to start your own website.
Finally, this represents only my own opinion of the situation. Your best bet for a more definitive answer is via the IMC Web list mentioned above. |
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Re: Dave Gehrig: A Convert to Judaism Who Has Become the Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org |
by David Green
davegreen48 (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
18 Apr 2005
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"I have a great deal of respect for both sides in this particular debate -- although they have seen fit so far to mostly talk past one another".......Mike, are you serious? Exactly what is it about those who support the continued occupation of Palestine that you respect? And given that the central arguments of my posts have been completely unaddressed by Gehrig, exactly who is talking past whom? Your attempt at "even-handedness" comes up quite short and irresponsible, especially in the context of the killing that goes on and on. |
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Re: Dave Gehrig: A Convert to Judaism Who Has Become the Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org |
by gehrig
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
18 Apr 2005
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I stand by what I post. That's why I sign my posts. The reason I didn't address Green's points is that they're generally self-refuting.
But what the hell, I'll take on one point, and then -- depending on whether Green makes the necessary apology -- go on from there.
Green seems to think that one of the most significant facts about me -- so overwhelmingly significant that it deserves to be in the title of his piece -- is that I am somehow a Jew with an asterisk. He's right; I did convert to Judaism. But it's worth knowing that the day I converted to Judaism, the President of the US was a guy named Jimmy Carter. It's been a quarter century this summer, and I am _long_ past the need to prove anything to anyone about my Jewish identity. Green is one of only two people I've encountered in the last, oh, fifteen years who has tried to get any mileage at all out of that point; the other was a Hitler apologist on alt.revisionism.
It is, however, completely irrelevant to the discussion, and Green only brings it up -- and shouts it in his title, so that he can't claim he didn't want to draw as much attention as possible to it -- as a way to try to delegitimize my identity, if only slightly.
That's crummy, Green. Not heartbreaking or traumatic, as I've said, but quite crummy all the same, because it's obviously politically motivated. (Among other things, it shows you've apparently forgotten the time we painted some hallways together as part of Mitzvah Day, a Jewish social action day.) So before I'd even _begin_ to address your other self-refuting points, I'll have to have an apology.
I'm generally not an I-demand-an-apology sort of guy. Hell, I didn't even demand an apology from Prof K, and if you know that story you know how amazing that is. But in this case, I do.
Having said that, I apologize for the second half of the phrase "tonedeaf asshole."
"Marat," incidentally, is annoyed that I've noticed the fundamental flaw of the anti-Cat protests, which is that it's addressing the wrong end of the supply chain. If they _do_ somehow manage to convince Cat not to sell to Israel, if at the same time they've done nothing to convince Israel to change its position, then Israel will just buy its dozers elsewhere. Net improvement in the life of the Palestinians: bupkes. For all of "marat"'s fun but erroneous sojourns into amateur psychology, he remains in denial about this central point, which is -- as I have said -- that the anti-Cat protests cannot be effective (barring the "we went rah-rah-rah rattle-rattle-rattle effectively but no Israeli policies were changed" definition of "effectiveness") working the wrong end of the chain. Unwilling to deal with it, directly, he instead goes into the same amateur psychologist mode Green does; pardon me for forgetting once again to be impressed.
And as for the suggestion that I'm somehow unnecessarily tendentious -- that's compared to what, the notices posted all over the IMCs in 2002 that Israelis were bulldozing the residents of Jenin live into mass graves?
@%< |
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Respect Does Not Mean Agreement |
by ML
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
18 Apr 2005
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David (Green),
Respect for both parties does not mean agreement with any specific positions of either. I simply wanted to quell any expectations that I am (or any other editor here is) in a position to make a political decision about what is an acceptable position by either party in my making editorial decisions here.
In fact, I disagree with both of you on certain points. Nonetheless, as an editor it is my responsibility solely to observe that everyone is mostly coloring within the lines of our website use policy. My role is to deal with repeated, egregious violations of this and specifically NOT to take positions in political support of any party.
As I've noted, if you have questions about this or, more specifically, think that the existing guidelines are not being followed or feel that they need to be changed, they are best addressed to the IMC Web list as a starting point. |
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Re: Dave Gehrig: A Convert to Judaism Who Has Become the Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org |
by La Ley
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
18 Apr 2005
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David, reread what Mike wrote:
"#3 UC IMC offers a forum for a variety of viewpoints. We do not take particular political positions, leaving it to the reader how to best sort out conflicting claims. While we realize that the issue of Israel/Palestine is one of the most contentious and stubborn sources of frequently deadly conflict and generates lots of comments, such conflict will not be resolved by who can get who banned on any particular IMC. Thus, whoever's side you may feel closer to, you are just as likely to run across something that will offend you here as not. That's not our problem -- it's yours. Get over it."
The IMC provides a forum for differing viewpoints and debate, regardless of whether a particular editor agrees with them or not. As Mike says, "Get over it."
Judging by your and Gehrig's recent posts, it looks like the catfight is going to continue. However, I'd suggest that you address each other's issues rather than questioning the IMC's web editing abilities and dragging individual editors' viewpoints into this. |
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Re: Dave Gehrig: A Convert to Judaism Who Has Become the Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org |
by wayward
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
18 Apr 2005
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I'm dismayed by this article. Although I did mention to David Green that Dave Gehrig had converted, I never expected the information to be used as a weapon. The headline particularly appalled me.
If you want to disagree with each other, fine. But ad hominem attacks are uncalled for. |
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Re: Dave Gehrig: A Convert to Judaism Who Has Become the Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org |
by gehrig
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
18 Apr 2005
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Although I rarely mention it -- because of its general irrelevance -- I don't make a secret of my conversion in 1980; in fact, I even mentioned it in section 6 of this piece:
http://www.ucimc.org/newswire/display/15535/index.php
But that mention was for the very specific purpose of refuting nessie's specious charge that I'm "racist" (by that wonderfully gerrymandered definition he uses).
The reason I don't usually mention it is that it's not particularly relevant for anything, and it's certainly not the central fact of my identity. Unless, apparently, Dave Green wants to use it to tar me as -- well, whatever his purposes were by highlighting it in his title.
Those of you who know me best know that, although I'm far from being a Jewish Bible-thumper, my religious beliefs are both deep and closely held. But they are not the same beliefs I was raised with, and I make absolutely no apology for that.
@%< |
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Re: Dave Gehrig: A Convert to Judaism Who Has Become the Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org |
by David Green
davegreen48 (nospam) yahoo.com (verified) |
Current rating: 0
18 Apr 2005
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"The reason I didn't address Green's points is that they're generally self-refuting. " Wow, that's really clever. So I guess the brilliant Gehrig can skip the boring content stuff and grow straight to the invective, and then wallow in self-pity when he gets called on it. "Self-refuting"? How about "transparent"? Like all bullies, and I presume internet bullies as well, Gehrig is a pathetic little coward, and naturally he projects his own hatred on dark-skinned people half-way around the world. And who gives a crap how deeply he holds his faith, such as it is? I don't question Gehrig's Jewishness, just his motives for converting. We could use a little more social conscience, and a little less white male privilege. I'll dream on. |
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Re: Dave Gehrig: A Convert to Judaism Who Has Become the Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org |
by gehrig
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
18 Apr 2005
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Green: "I don't question Gehrig's Jewishness"
Then I take it you retract your title, which by innuendo does exactly that?
@%< |
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Re: Dave Gehrig: A Convert to Judaism Who Has Become the Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org |
by La Ley
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
19 Apr 2005
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David Green: "I don't question Gehrig's Jewishness."
David's article title: "Dave Gehrig: A Convert to Judaism Who Has Become the Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org."
David Green: "Gehrig, who I have been led to believe is a convert to Judaism, must show his bona fides as a protector of the faith, albeit one that he is not known to practice it in any way, shape, or form."
David Green: "And who gives a crap how deeply he holds his faith, such as it is?"
Apparently you do, David, and you're willing to squander your reputation as one of the most eloquent defenders of Palestinian rights in Champaign/Urbana in order to satisfy a personal vendetta you have with Gehrig. Please try to rise above this petty bickering. Don't blame Gehrig--you're the one who started this thread. You're isolating yourself and alienating some of your supporters. |
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Re: Dave Gehrig: A Convert to Judaism Who Has Become the Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org |
by David Green
davegreen48 (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
19 Apr 2005
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I don't question Gehrig's Jewishness, nor care a whit about his religious practices. What I care about is that he has also adopted a maudlin and hysterical paranoia about anti-Semitism while ignoring very real and common Israeli atrocities. His idea of Jewish ethics is to apply a high standard to the Palestinians, and none at all to Israel and American support for Israeli criminality. Again, I'm not questioning Gehrig's religion or practices. I'm questioning his invocation of his religious identiy as a cover for the most blatant form of moral hypocrisy. He uses his religious identity to legitimize his own racism. He certainly reflects leaders of mainstream Jewish institutions in doing this. It's one thing to side with the strong against the weak. It's another thing to claim that you are being victimized. But this is nothing more than classic bullying, and Gehrig has mastered it, at least while sitting at his computer. To repeat: he has invested nothing into understanding the issues involved in Israel/Palestine, and has nothing of informative, moral, or practical value to add to a discussion of these issues. Obfuscation is his stock and trade. While I can only speculate about the motives for his conversion, I can say for certain that the result of his conversion is his identification with the most reprehensible aspects of Jewish institutional life, and his propagation of those aspects in his own (very small) way. |
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Re: Dave Gehrig: A Convert to Judaism Who Has Become the Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org |
by 3rd party
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
20 Apr 2005
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In other words, Mr. Green, Gehrig disagrees with you. Is it possible that someone could hold a position diametrically opposed to yours and still be a morally defensible human being? Or is that person, by definition, evil?
At this point, I find it bewildering that someone who uses such harsh and personal language in debate would have the nerve to publicly complain about others who say nasty things about you. My view is that all debate can and should be civilized.
It's not the hypocrisy that bothers me, really. It's just that I can't stand whiners. |
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Re: Dave Gehrig: A Convert to Judaism Who Has Become the Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org |
by gehrig
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
20 Apr 2005
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Green: "I don't question Gehrig's Jewishness, nor care a whit about his religious practices."
Anyone reading this thread, starting from its very title, can see quite plainly this is not the case. If you then turn around and say that you really don't care one way or another on the issue, then they will see you compounding the rhetorical problem by admitting that the attacks were simply gratuitous.
They will also see that, because I disagree with you, I am called a "racist" who "projects his own hatred on dark-skinned people half-way around the world."
Now is an _excellent_ time for you to withdraw that comment.
They will also likely scratch their heads at this question: why did discovering that I wasn't born Jewish make Green go ballistic? He didn't complain about either of those two posts when I made them. Yet his discovery of the not-very-hidden fact that I converted to Judaism suddenly sent the blood rushing to his head and his fingers rushing to the keyboard. Why is that?
@%< |
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Re: Dave Gehrig: A Convert to Judaism Who Has Become the Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org |
by David Green
davegreen48 (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
20 Apr 2005
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What sends me rushing to the keyboard is consistent ad hominem attacks made by Dave Gehrig against me, both here and in the N-G. Being a non-practicing convert who is obsessed with anti-Semitism doesn't make him any less Jewish, but tells us something about what being Jewish means to him: the privileges of claiming victimhood while acting the bully. I particularly love the comment about my arguments being "self-refuting," thus relieving himself of the obligation to address them, which he never has in any serious way. Again, Gehrig is a racist and a coward cloaked in innocence and self-righteousness. This fits him right in with the Jewish establishment at all levels. Dave, welcome to the club. |
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Re: Dave Gehrig: A Convert to Judaism Who Has Become the Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org |
by gehrig
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
20 Apr 2005
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Green: "Again, Gehrig is a racist and a coward cloaked in innocence and self-righteousness. This fits him right in with the Jewish establishment at all levels."
Got that one, folks? The "Jewish establishment" is racist and cowardly, cloaked in innocence and self-righteousness at all levels.
@%< |
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Re: Dave Gehrig: A Convert to Judaism Who Has Become the Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org |
by beholder
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
20 Apr 2005
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Mr. Green , you outrage intolerance (religious first of all) is just showing that it is YOU, who is shattering the very basis of American intellectual freedom, as the religious tolerance and coexistence had been what distinguished the NEW WORLD from the OLD ONE at the first place. I am sure that your way of discussion, presenting things and conducting argument are the classical examples of "turning table', by other words, attacking others and accusing them simultaneously in what is obviously your fault and your initiatives. I am no editor of IMC, but it seems to me that this kind of the dialog's conducting shouldn’t be tolerated on IMC web. I was mistaken when I think that it would be the best simply to ignore you. What do other think? |
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Re: Dave Gehrig: A Convert to Judaism Who Has Become the Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org |
by 3rd party
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
20 Apr 2005
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Mr. Green,
What DID they DO to you when you were a child? |
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Re: Dave Gehrig: A Convert to Judaism Who Has Become the Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org |
by An interested observer
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
20 Apr 2005
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Green on Gehrig: "Being a non-practicing convert..."
Where do you get this "non-practicing" business, bub? This statement is, in point of fact, yet another baseless slander you've hurled at Mr. Gehrig. And another data point in support of Gehrig's assessment of your musical ear and personal character.
I disagree with beholder, though. IMC should absolutely allow this dialogue to continue. For one thing, such censorship would run counter to the principles of the IMC. For another, I'm curious to see how big of a hole Mr. Green intends to dig for himself. |
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Re: Dave Gehrig: A Convert to Judaism Who Has Become the Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org |
by gehrig
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
20 Apr 2005
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I think Green's assessment of me as "non-practicing" has to do with the fact that I don't attend weekly Shabbat services. That's quite a narrow definition, but it serves his purposes. Those of you closest to me know what being Jewish means to who I am, and -- unsurprisingly -- it's considerably different from the purely negative fulminations of Green.
What Green hasn't yet done, however, is explain why, if the IMC posts he finds so horrible were weeks and months old, it suddenly became imperative for him to attack me now -- imperative upon learning that I converted to Judaism during the last days of disco.
I'd also point to his intemperate attacks on local Jewish organizations -- because surely that's what he means with the phrase "at all levels" -- as something to keep in mind as I repeat (this time without the gratuitous obscenity for which I have since apologized) exactly the sentence that seems to have worked him into such a lather:
"Have you ever wondered whether the almost universal dislike with which you are held by the CU Jewish community may not be because you're a dashingly prophetic anti-Zionist martyr, but simply because you're a tonedeaf [jeremiad junkie], one who can't see how you drive others in the Jewish community away with the unrestrained slash-and-burn shrillness of your screeds?"
On the issue of whether or not this thread should be on UC-IMC, hey, I'm fine with it. Love me or hate me but know where I stand and why.
@%< |
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Re: Dave Gehrig: A Convert to Judaism Who Has Become the Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org |
by Born to the Tribe
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
20 Apr 2005
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As a natural-born Jew, perhaps my comments will remove (temporarily) from the "discussion" the variable of conversion and whatever that may or may not imply.
I sincerely wish Mr. Green would take a moment to consider that references to such phenomena as "the Jewish establishment" are indeed redolant of historical references to Jews by an anti-semitic "establishment."
Put another way, you will never -- never -- move anyone toward your point of view by offending them, whether the offense is intentional or not.
When someone speaks of the Jewish establishment, I hear echoes of "Jewish-controlled media," "Jewish-controlled banking," and other loaded terms that have been used over the centuries to define an entire people, categorize their viewpoints, and ultimately bring them down.
I must also say I resent the notion that the common citizen finds it impossible to discern the truth. That, sir, is a specious argument, implying that the only people who disagree with your perspective are those who are so simple minded as to have been duped by "the establishment." If you are smart enough to avoid that trap, maybe many others are as well. And it's just possible that some among those still disagree with you.
Breath deep, Mr. Green. |
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Re: Dave Gehrig: A Convert to Judaism Who Has Become the Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org |
by gehrig
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
22 Apr 2005
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anonymouse: "dave gehrig only practices one part of his jewshit religion, the jew-blood ritual of drinking childrens blood"
You know, if I didn't know better I would call that personalized antisemitism. But Dr. Green has told me that I "certainly" don't "know what antisemitism is through personal experience," so therefore this post must represent something else. Personalized philosemitism, maybe?
@%< |
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Re: Dave Gehrig: A Convert to Judaism Who Has Become the Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org |
by gehrig
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
22 Apr 2005
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My previous post refers to a comment that was removed for its, uh, blatant philosemitism.
@%< |
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Re: Dave Gehrig: A Convert to Judaism Who Has Become the Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org |
by beholder
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
23 Apr 2005
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Yes, the hint is good. To straight is out it is possible to say simply that views of David Green and permanent vies of KKK are THE SAME CURRENTLY. It should clarify the treatment, which postings of David Green should deserve on this web. |
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Re: Dave Gehrig: A Convert to Judaism Who Has Become the Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org |
by gehrig
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
23 Apr 2005
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No, I think it's way over the line to compare Green to the KKK, even though he's done essentially the same thing to me with his crack about "projecting his own hatred on dark-skinned people half-way around the world."
Under the circumstances, though, it's awfully hard not to make a general comment about the role of psychological projection in this thread, given glaringly unsupported phrases like the one I just quoted.
@%< |
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Re: Dave Gehrig: A Convert to Judaism Who Has Become the Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org |
by Born to the Tribe
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
23 Apr 2005
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Gehrig,
I have to agree that one wonders whence the vituperous and slanderouss flavor of Green's commentary. In this and other threads he has posted, there is a demonic energy, a compulsion, filled with offensive characterizations of those who disagree with him. There clearly seems to be something deeply personal about all of this -- it goes way beyond political conviction. |
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Re: Dave Gehrig: A Convert to Judaism Who Has Become the Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org |
by dr
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
23 Apr 2005
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The indictment of Gehrig as an anti-Arab racist stands. Ask Arab students around town about this clown. |
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Re: Dave Gehrig: A Convert to Judaism Who Has Become the Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org |
by gehrig
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
23 Apr 2005
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So again, a drive-by, evidence-free anony-slander that I'm "racist."
By all means, let's see the evidence of that "racism." And be sure to ask for a specific example of my "racism." Have someone post a URL here. If I'm so scabrously "racist," it shouldn't be hard to dig up convincing evidence, right? Let's see it.
Lay it out. I'm waiting.
@%< |
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Re: Dave Gehrig: A Convert to Judaism Who Has Become the Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org |
by gehrig
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
25 Apr 2005
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As I expected: nothing.
@%< |
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Re: Dave Gehrig: A Convert to Judaism Who Has Become the Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org |
by gehrig
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
26 Apr 2005
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... and still nothing. I think we can put this one to rest.
@%< |
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Re: Dave Gehrig: A Convert to Judaism Who Has Become the Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org |
by european antifa
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
26 Aug 2005
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Gehrig is OK, but he's too soft on fascist anti-zionism |
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Re: Dave Gehrig: A Convert to Judaism Who Has Become the Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org |
by huanita
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
08 May 2006
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Warning !!
''David Green'' is not a ''jew''. He posing as a ''good jew'' to defame them.
Everyday i meet on internet 3264 bogus 'jews''. who post the same propaganda as above. |
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Re: Dave Gehrig: A Convert to Judaism Who Has Become the Zionist Attack Dog of ucimc.org |
by gehrig
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
08 May 2006
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Yes, Dave Green is Jewish. Whether he's an effective spokesman for his position is left as an exercise to the reader.
@%< |
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