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Why Tod's Trolls Don't Use the PUBLISH Button |
Current rating: 0 |
by Paul Kotheimer
Email: herringb (nospam) prairienet.org (verified) |
20 Feb 2005
Modified: 02:48:53 PM |
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Tod's operatives have been watching the ucimc.org site like vultures. Why don't they use the OPEN PUBLISHING SYSTEM and write a story of their own, instead of claiming that the UCIMC is out to get Tod? |
Mayor Tod Satterthwaite's supporters continue to troll the "Comments" sections of the ucimc.org website, countering every claim made against their leader. Now, it becomes clear why none of them is willing to use the "PUBLISH" button available to all on the IMC site.
Their argument is that the IMC is somehow "in control" of candidates who oppose the mayor and what some call his "dirty tricks" politics.
If Tod's supporters actually used the "PUBLISH" function of the IMC's website, we would see stories on both sides. Instead, Tod's supporters just troll and lurk down in the "Comments" queues of this site, all the while claiming that the Newswire is biased, biased, biased!!--Biased in favor of Laurel, Danielle, Ricky, Durl Kruse, and Brandon B.
Of course, if Tod's supporters actually USED the IMC site to disseminate primary information like press releases, they might then have to admit that the site is a GOOD RESOURCE for citizens in East Central Illinois.
Instead they utitlize the UCIMC "Comments" section to make the claim that the IMC "Newswire" is biased. This is A BOGUS AND DISINGENUOUS CLAIM. Anyone can publish on this site's "Newswire," in exactly the way I am doing today, simply by clicking the link that says "PUBLISH."
You too can be Kings or Queens of Urbana, if that's what you think having your say on the IMC Newswire does for you... I sincerely doubt it gives any of us that much power, YET.
Meanwhile, I'm doing research to back up the assertions I make in my previous Newswire posting. I'll have them up for that commentator soon. |
This work is in the public domain |
Comments
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Re: Why Tod's Trolls Don't Use the PUBLISH Button |
by Julia
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
20 Feb 2005
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Paul---I'll bet you one of the reasons people didn't use the publish button is that they didn't know it was available to them. I've been tuning in to the IMC for about a year now and this is the first time I've seen a post that specifically tells people about the Publish button. Are you saying that anybody can post an article to this site---even one that is supportive of a Republican candidate ---and it will not be censored?
If that's the case, maybe you should clearly state this across the top of the home page. I'm sure there would be a much more balanced presentation of issues and candidates if that were made clear to the reader. The people you refer to as "trolls" are probably frustrated citizens who see the one-dimensional "reporting" on this site. There are many to sides to each story and only a couple have been "reported" here.
An "Open Publishing Forum" only works if you share the operating instructions. :) |
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Re: Why Tod's Trolls Don't Use the PUBLISH Button |
by web browsing 101
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
20 Feb 2005
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> Are you saying that anybody can post an article to this site---even one that is supportive of a Republican candidate ---and it will not be censored?
This has been said so many times in so many ways on this site that it is very difficult for me to believe that anyone could have missed it.
> If that's the case, maybe you should clearly state this across the top of the home page.
There is a series of links across the top of *every single page* on the IMC that provides comprehensive information about the site, including how to publish. It's right below the banner image. Point and click. |
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Re: Why Tod's Trolls Don't Use the PUBLISH Button |
by Joe Futrelle
futrelle (nospam) shout.net (verified) |
Current rating: 0
20 Feb 2005
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OK, here's what I think is going to happen now.
Now that the people too clueless to have figured out they can post whatever they want to the newswire have had that explained to them in all caps by Paul, they'll realize that not only can they post Republican (or whatever) rants to the newswire, but also that they can spam the newswire to push other people's posts off the front page.
They will either not have read the use policy forbidding spamming or they will conveniently ignore it.
Then the editors will enforce the policy and start deleting the offending posts.
Then the spammers will complain that they're being censored on the basis of content.
There will be endless arguments about it, and eventually the spammers will lose those arguments, because the use policy is really pretty clear.
Then the whole cycle will start again.
I'm only posting this now so that when it does happen I can link back to my post predicting it. |
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Re: Why Tod's Trolls Don't Use the PUBLISH Button |
by Don't help the GOP
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
20 Feb 2005
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Let them remain clueless. They need to learn how to read first :) |
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Re: Why Tod's Trolls Don't Use the PUBLISH Button |
by gambler
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
21 Feb 2005
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> Julia, Look at the titles of recent IMC publications: ... [snip] ... If "Satterthwaite" was replaced by any one of the IMC-supported candidates: Laurel, Danielle, Brandon, Ricky, Daryl, etc. What would happen? The comment would be IMMEDIATELY DELETED by the Lord of Web, Mr. ML.
You're bluffing.
[pushes entire stack of chips into the pot] |
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Daryl??? |
by ML
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
21 Feb 2005
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Trolls. They can't even get names right.
Who the heck is "Daryl"?
It costs nothing to get in, but they're gutless wonders when it comes to playing this game. Just more trolls (now hidden, although that's a hilarious excerpt!) and no story so far. We'll see if they can walk the talk, gambler. |
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Re: Why Tod's Trolls Don't Use the PUBLISH Button |
by Julia
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
21 Feb 2005
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ML- Maybe the "Gutless Wonders" are doing research and checking facts before posting an article here. It takes time to examine meeting minutes, verify sources, and find supporting documents. |
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Re: Why Tod's Trolls Don't Use the PUBLISH Button |
by gambler
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
21 Feb 2005
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> Maybe the "Gutless Wonders" are doing research and checking facts before posting an article here.
[spit-take] |
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Re: Why Tod's Trolls Don't Use the PUBLISH Button |
by rhetoric 101
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
21 Feb 2005
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> The fact that ML deleted the poster's comment is indeed a sign that the poster was, in fact, correct.
No it's not. The post that was hidden was not expressing an opinion about the election--it was attacking the IMC editors. The poster's actual claim was not that posts attacking the IMC editors would be deleted (no one disputes that), but that posts attacking progressive candidates would be deleted. That claim remains to be proven. |
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Talking 'bout Trolls |
by ML
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
21 Feb 2005
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Julia,
I was referring to trolls. Are you a troll?
And rhetoric 101 is right. Trolling is the quick way to the Hidden files (and beyond) around here. 99% of it is so obviously from one person that it simply points out the mental pathology behind such behavior. Someone new might be taken in when it briefly appears, but no one takes it seriously but the troll.
Now, let's get back on subject, because this is, as has already been pointed out, an issue that is clear to most anyone using the web past the first week. It is easy to publish here. Some just want to take potshots at the ideas of others, rather than risking exposing their own ideas to the criticism of others. |
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Re: Why Tod's Trolls Don't Use the PUBLISH Button |
by Julia
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
21 Feb 2005
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"Julia,
I was referring to trolls. Are you a troll?"
No, but my friend is a troglodyte, my distant cousin is a wood nymph, and I think there are a few sprites in the family. Haven't heard of any trolls.... |
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Re: Why Tod's Trolls Don't Use the PUBLISH Button |
by troll watcher
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
21 Feb 2005
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The trolls' argument is as follows: any political opinion included or implied in a post that is otherwise nothing more than abusive spam should make the post and the poster exempt from the acceptable use policy, on the grounds that trolls are somehow uniquely incapable of sorting abuse and political opinion into separate posts.
You can see why they keep losing this argument. |
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Questions |
by Observer
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
21 Feb 2005
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Watcher --
If you are assuming that all "troll" posts are "abusive spam," then are you not pre-judging the posts and the posters?
Furthermore, how do you know someone is a troll and someone is not. What makes a person be classified a "troll"? Can a person become not a "troll" after a while of posting?
If a person is posting and making contributions, then why classify that person as a troll (which I take it to mean a bad person)?
Instead why not invite the person in the IMC community?
Is there a study somewhere - perhaps from IMC lifers like Sascha and ML - that shows why people have problems with IMC policies? Is there a study that provides a criticism of IMC policies towards those who may not agree with its viewpoint in the beginning.
If IMC - which depends on membership to support itself - would welcome people then they can convert the so called trolls into their fold.
Take a chance, IMC, take a chance.
-An observer of IMC for about a week |
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More questions |
by Observer
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
21 Feb 2005
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Rhetoric 101:
"The post that was hidden was not expressing an opinion about the election--it was attacking the IMC editors."
A basic question. Does not IMC support AWARE? What is the premise? Bush is bad. Bush must be stopped. Does White House think you are "attacking Bush" and close IMC?
You want IMC to protest. But you are closing other people to question or criticize IMC?
Is IMC above all? Is IMC free of any problem whatsover. Is IMC space a nirvana?
Please stop finding faults with everyone, especially those who have a different viewpoint.
This a sure sign of a person who believes in using power to control others (in this case, deleting posts and calling people with primitive terms, trolls).
-An observer (who happened to be directed towards IMC by a republican as an interesting site; well, too bad, it is not interesting at all; just made up of uppity liberals-elite activists-informed tatooed freshmen). |
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Same Old Troll |
by ML
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
21 Feb 2005
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There are no new trolls on the website.
There is the same old troll, whining about how he gets censored. He made the two posts above.
Try not being Jack Ryan with a new name every day for a month or two. You might get lucky then, if you quit being you.
I've left the whining above intact, but already sent away more from him asking that we explain it to him "as if to a two-year old" how our rules work. Everyone here has better things to do than play games with a troll.
I think Joe has already laid it out, it's obvious what the options are if you go to the Infodoc libray available at the links at the top of the page, and -- finally, because this address has been listed here numerous times -- send an email to imc-web(nospam)ucimc.org if you have any questions.
We now return you to your IMC, minus the whining of trolls. |
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Just for the Record |
by ML
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
23 Feb 2005
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Given that a troll has repeatedly made vague and unsupportable threats against the IMC, I wanted to note a few facts for the record. This thread is a prime example of the issues I will deal with.
It currently has 42 comments. Approximately 25 of them are hidden, because they are obvious trolls, all the more obvious because nearly every one can be linked back to a systematic pattern of abuse of our website over more than two years that focuses on one person.
You will note that there are variety of comments here. Some support the article, some oppose it. As anyone can do with any IMC article.
The original article notes the interesting source of the vast majority of complaints we ever see about website editing -- they are anonymous charges made by those unwilling to ever follow-up their obviously abusive posts by defending them against the legitimate application of our website use policies. The iobjective of these policies is to keep this an open forum that encourages debate and repeated postings by thoughtful and serious users.
This is a very different environment than one that tolerates trolls. We know. We've been there. Trolls must get their jollies elsewhere now. Unless the only thing that gets them their jollies is being sent straight to the hidden, hidden files. In that case, you really need help, but you will definitley get what you're looking for here -- no respect.
And we don't buckle under to your crude threats either.
In response to Paul's appeal, we got 25 more rude comments to Paul's story, among the other good ones -- probably a troll or two slipped through. That is less important than the fact that he is wasting his time for the most part.
We also got one very weak pro-Satterthwaite posting early on election morning. Since it really made no attempt at being a news story and was nothing but a "call to action" sort of posting, it was inappropriate for me to make it into a Feature.
As an IMC editor, I waited in vain for those who wanted to present an alternative view, but there are those politicans that don't want to risk exposing their message to a public that talks back. The IMC can't make them post their stuff here.
Their apparent supporters who come here trolling apparently are unwilling to post such material here. And I say apparent, because the troll really doesn't support Tod -- he was just looking for a fight among Democrats he could exploit. Well, he got a fight, but not the result he'd hoped for. Maybe instead of spamming the IMC site, he should have been out working for Tod?
In any case, his choices didn't do Tod any good. I myself hesitate to attach to him the title "Tod's troll" because he really is just a troll, hoping to exploit someone else's bad situation to get his own amusement. In any case, the time he spent here should have been spent helping Tod. He desparately needed some friends. When even Republicans don't like you enough anymore to help, you're hurting.
But the IMC has been here all along, doing journalism that fairly reflects what people see in the community. It reflects the opinions of the community. It doesn't tell them what to think, because they can always talk back to the media itself -- it's up to them, what they make of it or whether they just ignore it.
Just don't waste you time trolling. Urbana has better things to do. |
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