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Happy New Year To Everybody and Think About My Proposal |
Current rating: 0 |
by Anna Epelbaum
Email: aepelbaum (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified!)
Phone: (217) 359-3619
Address: 302 S. Second St., #711 |
31 Dec 2004
Modified: 08:12:19 AM |
As the after November election's publications on this web are showing pretty clearly, it is a difficult time for progressive people of Urbana-Champaign to 'gather together their wits' and to determine the global directions for their current activities. Below in quotes is my last comment to the article of Phil Stinard from 12/8/04. I think that now it is the very right time for my proposal from this comment. Here it is:
"As this story is becoming more popular in Urbana -Champaign neighborhood and over the country, I think that it is the very right time now to write to Chancellor Richard Herman an open petition with as many signatures as possible to attract his attention to the situation of Wayne Pickette. Every university is drastically increasing its prestige and available funding when it gets more Nobel Prize winners. If the "racial barrier" is crossed, Wayne Pickette, Marcian Hoff and, maybe, other participants of this invention would be likely the winners of an upcoming 2005 Nobel Prize, if properly recommended. The consequences of this event for the university and the neighboring community would be, certainly, essential and positive. The consequences for the world, as the possibility for Wayne Pickette to fast implement and disseminate his revolutionary engine would become immediately available, are also impossible to overestimate.
It would be the real act of the support to the causes, which IMC claims to promote and to protect.
It would be also the action to promote the image of IMC of Champaign-Urbana above its current local scale.
So, let us go ahead, produce, and submit such a petition. "
Happy New Year to Everyone and Have A Nice Celebration! |
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Let Us Talk To Each Other In 2005 ! |
This work is in the public domain |
Comments
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Re: Happy New Year To Everybody and Think About My Proposal |
by uh-nawn
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
02 Jan 2005
|
Imagine that, Anna Epelbaum tooting her own horn, and still blathering-on about her hubby's lack of recognition. Still. From day one, until right now.
Anna, your grating and persistent style will do (is doing) as much to hurt and hinder your case, and every case for that matter, as to help or promote anything.
Please, just shut up. It's painfully obvious to all of us that the only reason you fill UCIMC's pages with your emotional, insulting, and childish drivel is to gain attention and "credit" for your husband. A noble cause no doubt, but your style and attitude is counter-productive. Less is more, Sister.
I am truly pleased to have read about his story, from other writers. But really, the thing I'll always remember most about Wayne, is that he married a loon that spammed an IMC message-board for months on end.
Wayne, you may love and respect your wife, but I would like to recommend that you find a new publicist. This one's going to sink you sooner than save you. |
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Re: Happy New Year To Everybody and Think About My Proposal |
by Wayne Pickette
waynedougpick (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
02 Jan 2005
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People who have an interest usually are not focusing on style but content, therefore I presume that people who are affronted by my Wife's style are not worthy of consideration. My rule "Do no criticize unless you have a replacement offering" Stands on itself. Keep the rules of objectivity in mind. Rude arguments are not objective at all but show minimal intellect. |
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Re: Happy New Year To Everybody and Think About My Proposal |
by Anna Epelbaum
aepelbaum (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
02 Jan 2005
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Dear 'uh-nawn', I am going to place in this OPEN PUBLISHING FORUM, whichever I think is useful to post here. I hope that the proper commission in the future would take care of the strange activities of this OPEN PUBLISHING FORUM. I am not interested WHATSOEVER in any opinion of yours or anyone, who share your attitude. So, don't bother to comment my article and/or mention my name, it would be fully ignored anyhow.
Besides, your comments only disgrace yourself. |
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Re: focusing on style rather than content |
by 5
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
02 Jan 2005
|
Actually, I focus on:
Anna's wild and unfounded accusations of who posters are on this site (and usually she misspells their names anyway---so even though she *slanders* them, she shows ignorance about who she is slandering)
Anna's insults to people who suggest that her style is more alienating than helpful. Frankly, until I read Phil Stinard's article, I thought Wayne's plight was a figment of Anna's imagination.
Anna's screeching about IMC policies and members---when she obviously hasn't even bothered to read the policies of the website.
When Anna falsely identifies a people, her posts are hidden. If she stopped doing this, I'm sure her posts would remain visible.
Finally, as an open publishing site, it is open to anyone who wishes to post articles *and* to comment on posted articles---as long as they follow the rules. If Anna thinks the readers' opinions are trash (as she said in her rightfully hidden post), then perhaps she should post her articles where they can't be commented on.
She has shown that she knows not what she speaks of when it comes to the IMC and the posters on this board. Why would I trust *any* content that comes from her? If I tell you the sky is red and that night is day, do you believe me when I say anything else? |
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Re: Happy New Year To Everybody and Think About My Proposal |
by Wayne D. Pickette
waynedougpick (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
02 Jan 2005
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How could you think my plight was in her imagination when there are many other web sites that tell similar versions of my interview (in several languages) of the same story? I was not crazy when I did not sign the Patent for the 4004. When I was 17, my purchase of that PDP-8/S was written up nationally in Electronic News, my picture was there also. I believe an alert was set at the Patent Office for my name, because that same year, two weeks after I mailed a search, I received a long distance call from a lawyer representing a professor in North Carolina. Two weeks! That is about how long it took for them to receive and open the mail, which means whoever opened my search application violated confidentiality rules and called the professor immediately! The professor did not have a patent on the device, but wanted to discourage anyone else to work on it. I did not want this possibility to interfere in any way with the 4004, therefore I declined to sign. In 1992 when Ted contacted me to testify in the Patent fight with Gill Hyatt, I then wanted to testify and show my evidence. Ted had already eliminated my input and did not want to backtrack, he lost the case. That all made me very angry that greed had won....
In short, by the time Anna contacted IMC the first time, my story, covering the entire information of Phil Stinard's publication and much more, had been all over Internet in about twenty different languages. So, your explanation that you didn't trust her doesn't seem convincing.
It should have been some other reason(s) why you mistreated her proposal and my recorded by Clint Popetz interview (or monologue).
I got a solid impression that some people from your establishment have been bullying her and torturing on purpose (I wonder what purpose it might have been). These people were, and, it seems, are certainly supported by the web's current editorial staff. |
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Your assumptions are incorrect |
by 5
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
04 Jan 2005
|
For the second time, I have never met you or Anna. I never heard your story *anywhere* but on this IMC from yourself and Anna and most recently Phil Stinard.
I've never heard any recording of you or Anna.
I don't know you except from your writings here. I don't know Anna except from her writings here.
THAT is what I have to go by when I judge whether or not to trust a source. Anna has claimed someone I have met to be a racist (incorrectly, in my opinion).
Anna has claimed someone has written something about a vibrator in her name on this site. I find that *incredibly* hard to believe she has any proof that some anonymous troll who has been harrassing the IMC for years is really a community activist I have met and respect greatly.
Anna claims to know who posters are on this site---including me. And she is wrong. My name is Sarah. And that is all you get. Otherwise, my name will be up here on the IMC slandered with all the other poor people she has unjustly attacked without *any proof whatsoever*.
My membership with the IMC has lapsed (lack of funds---need to rectify that). I have no say in anything other than the comments I post here. I am not an editor, a founder, an active participant at this time in the IMC. I am interested in helping provide space and equipment for people to tell their own stories. That is why I joined before and that is why I will re-up my membership.
I apologize for entering this discussion. I had hoped you would accept the fact that Anna is hurting your cause. Instead you believe her rantings that I am someone I am not, that the IMC is out to get her, that we are torturing her. If she stops erronously posting people's names in her comments, I'm guessing her posts will remain unhidden.
Good luck with your cause. |
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Re: Happy New Year To Everybody and Think About My Proposal |
by Anna Epelbaum
aepelbaum (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
05 Jan 2005
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I happened to have a very good memory. There was a comment by Sarah just after the appearance of my article The Past , The Present, The Future, where the author said something like, "Everything in microprocessors is already distributed. The place is occupied, Dude!"
There was another Sarah, who introduced herself as Sarah Lasare, when she came to WEFT building to PC meeting when I proposed my show. There were a lot of young ladies associated with IMC that time without any reason for their presence(at least none of them gave any reason ). This Sarah Lasare met me and Wayne at that meeting. So, whether all these sarahs (including you) are the same person, or different, I don't know. What I know is:
1. I have been treated improperly by your leaders since my second appearance in IMC staff meeting, I have all reasons to attribute it (maybe partially) to the negative influence of Sandra Ahten;
2. It was me not you who saw Ms. Carol a very short while prior to the appearance of this comment about sex vibrator, I remember how angry at me and irritated she looked;
3. The important thing with all my postings in this Open Publishing Forum is the fact that all positive comments to my publications are IMMEDIATELY ( or almost immediately) deleted, and all negative even with extremely derogatory words (like the one here by 'uh-nawn’) are always maintained;
4. Summarizing all the above, I want to tell, again, that this policy towards me is not only unreasonable, but simply stupid, as the story I have brought here, the message, which this establishment is able to send with the help of this story, and all consequences of this message for IMC should be highly positive.
So, why for the god sake, are your leaders mistreating me, when I, especially because I brought to IMC Wayne's story, can be so useful to them? There is no other answer for it, but the answer that in reality they are trying globally to solidify racial inequality, which they are officially opposing, illustrating it by some little examples.
That is all. Thank you, though, for your "Good Luck Greeting" and have a nice day. |
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Just for the Record |
by ML
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
05 Jan 2005
|
Most of Anna's complaints have to do with editing here on the website. Sandra Ahten has absolutely nothing to do with website editing at the IMC.
What Anna's other complaints have to do with is mostly the refusal of IMC volunteers to take orders from her, to alter the radio show's format to accomodate her unreasonable demands, and her haughty claims that her work is superior to that of others here on Indymedia.
This is absolutely the last time that I will bend the rules to allow Anna to carry on her pattern of baseless, persistent personal attacks against nearly every IMC volunteer she has ever come into contact with. I have asked her numerous times not to engage in such behavior.
This subject is now closed, Anna, PERIOD.
Do not mention the names of any IMC volunteer in anything you post on this website, since it will be hidden, no matter that you might be enclosing relevant material along with your abusive screeds.
If you want to discuss this further, you have the option of sending email to the IMC Web group address that you have used before or you have the option of attending a Steering meeting to discuss it. But this subject is now closed here on the IMC website.
I would also request that others ignore her provocations. I think by now readers can draw their own conclusions about the credibility of what she posts. |
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Re: Happy New Year To Everybody and Think About My Proposal |
by Anna Epelbaum
aepelbaum (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
05 Jan 2005
|
According to the rules, which you are promoting, ML, this comment of yours should be sent to me, personally, OVER e-mail, not posted as a comment, as it is completely IRRELEVANT to the topic of this article.
If you are not interested to have my answers, which I submitted in my previous comment or don't want to allow them, then PROHIBIT also or delete the questions from 'S' comment, to which these answers were given. You know, ML, you are reminding me behavior of Bush, when short while ago he demanded Iraq to disarm immediately as he was claiming that he was going to attack the country, and THAT IS WHY required this immediate disarmament . Be at least slightly fair and reasonable. If you and others were not attacking me and mainly the major cause, I have been promoting here since the beginning, what would be the reason for me to attack your members? What were and are your reasons to delete IMMEDIATELY all positive comments to my publications even if they are not including any other information but these positive opinions about my postings, ah? So, I am not going to disarm only because you or others want or wanted to attack me. As a matter of fact, I am not going to disarm just because you are attacking me without any reasonable cause and AGAINST EVERY BIT OF COMMON SENSE. What is this bias for? What are you afraid of? I am not fighting for the position of the leader of this board. You probably can understand that it is kind of below my real ambition. What is this initiation all over again and again of senseless mice or cats fights for? You were able to understand that Wayne’s cause, which I brought to IMC, is very useful for IMC. So, stick to it. I have all rights to publish whichever I want in Open Publishing Forum. If your members don’t want negative answers, they should not post negative comments, which I feel myself obligated to answer. Simple and clear ! I, in my turn, would not initiate in the future any discussion with your members, as their reactions seem to me often more than strange and unreasonable. So, if asked and/or provoked, I‘d answer, if not-not.
Whether you, Ml, like it or not it IS MY RIGHT in Open Publishing Forum to answer exactly the way I was asked, ot to treat anyone or everyone back the way I was treated by this anyone or everyone.
This is the right of EVERYBODY in Open Publishing Forum !!!
I have written many times that you are unadequate editor for such public domain just because you are violating these rights of everyone for a lot of people who are honestly and peacefully interested in communication over this web ! You are abusing your editorial rights. Your way of censorship is wrong. It is against the first amendmend, if you want legal terminology.
It is also against a lot of Illinois Internet laws. |
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Why? |
by ML
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
05 Jan 2005
|
Why did I post it here?
Because I seemed to have failed to get your attention on this point on numerous previous occassions.
BTW, there is no "S" comment here or anywhere else for that matter. There are comments by "5" (as in five, the number), but your inability to read closely is far exceeded by your inability up to this point to comply with the policies of this website.
I look forward to you immediately ceasing these violations, as you have just promised.
I would also highly recommend that if you do not want anyone making negative commenst about your posts, then you should also quit posting here completely, because the ability of readers to comment on posts as they see fit (within the very loose policies of this website) is an essential feature of Indymedia.
You've had you say on this, so it is over. I have repeatedly explained our policies and how you can avoid violating them.
Any further reply you wish to make on this subject should be to Web group email list or by your personal attendance at one of our meetings. Otherwise, it is inappropriate and off topic here or in any other post by you on this website. You're simply beating the bloody red spot that used to be a dead horse. |
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Re: Happy New Year To Everybody and Think About My Proposal |
by Wayne D. Pickette
waynedougpick (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
05 Jan 2005
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In the future everyone who tries to have any conversation with me should demonstrate full and complete respect to my Wife, who has been promoting my cause under the very strange pressure of your staff. I think that she has been mistreated more than enough by IMC. I don't consider either the text of 'uh-nawn' publication or especially the way ML is allowing himself to write to be the permissible way to treat my Wife (even anyone on the board at that matter, but for me-her, especially). If someone in the future wants to express negative thoughts about the content of her postings one better should send them as e-mail to me, because any comments with derogatory content she would be answering exactly the way one has presented one's original comments, I hope even more. I agree with her that the ways of this web editorial staff seem to exhibit the obvious bias, and the very serious and unreasonable bias against her (assuming that this was not the bias against my cause to begin with, not an obvious assumption). Watching the way you are treating her on this board, I don’t think that I’d ever allow her to visit IMC building without the very reliable protection (without me, I think, or even more). |
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Re: Happy New Year To Everybody and Think About My Proposal |
by Joe Futrelle
futrelle (nospam) shout.net (verified) |
Current rating: 0
06 Jan 2005
|
> Watching the way you are treating her on this board, I don’t think that I’d ever allow her to visit IMC building without the very reliable protection (without me, I think, or even more).
What on earth are you insinuating?
Has everyone here lost their minds?
Let me say one thing to both sides of this pointless, juvenile conflict.
To all the IMC'ers who have been slandered by Anna's paranoid writings--let it go. Stop responding. And stop with the personal attacks. That's exactly not what is needed.
To Anna and Wayne: I have read stories about Wayne's career with interest and I agree wholeheartedly that his role in the invention of the microprocessor deserves attention. Anna, you seem sincere to me but you must stop villifying IMC volunteers and editors. Inventing nefarious motives for what amount to honest differences of opinion provokes indignant denials, which in turn provides more pretext for inventing nefarious motives, which polarizes what could be a productive conversation and turns it into a shouting match.
Now, I think the editors have been very clear on what they're going to do. I personally don't think it will prevent substantive, respectful dialogue. Which, after all, is the only thing worth using an open publishing forum for. |
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Re: Happy New Year To Everybody and Think About My Proposal |
by Anna Epelbaum
aepelbaum (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
06 Jan 2005
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As soon as any derogatory personal attack on me or my husband would not be posted on this web as comments to my own articles or someone's else articles, I would not be obligated to answer and/or to act the same way, as the authors of these derogatory comments. There is a good Russian proverb, which sounds in translation something like this, "Answers have usually the same ways, as the questions." If I ever meet in WEFT and/or anywhere else around the specially sent in connection with me and/or my causes delegation from IMC, I would be in the future prepared to meet and to act correspondingly. If editorial staff of this web is not expressing bias in the future like they have been doing it before, the exchange of opinions on this web, as it should be in any publishing forum, shall flourish, if not, it would die, as such exchange has always done anywhere and whenever under the heavy and bias censorship. That is all ! |
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Clarification |
by ML
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
06 Jan 2005
|
No one, that I can remember, has ever said anything of the nature of a "derogatory personal attack" on Wayne here on the website. Some sharp words have been expressed about your writings, Anna, but most of these are also not of the nature of a "derogatory personal attack" however you choose to characterize them.
There is no "specially sent in connection with me and/or my causes delegation from IMC" although a number of IMC members also happen to be members of WEFT, most since long before the IMC ever existed. The IMC and WEFT are two entirely separate organizations, but it's a small town and the IMC has many members, so you are likely to encounter them frequently if you care about the media and are politically active.
Editorial staff here on the IMC website do not make decisions based on bias. We make them based on violations of our website use policy. We do not automatically enforce the policy, either. You have to be in repeated violation of the policy before we will act. Once again, I will remind you that comments or discussion of our website use policy are OFF TOPIC here. You should either send us an email or attend a meeting if you wish to discuss it or make comments about it. Please do not do so here, as such comments from you will in the future be hidden. |
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Re: Happy New Year To Everybody and Think About My Proposal |
by Joe Futrelle
futrelle (nospam) shout.net (verified) |
Current rating: 0
06 Jan 2005
|
> As soon as any derogatory personal attack on me or my husband would not be posted on this web as comments to my own articles or someone's else articles, I would not be obligated to answer and/or to act the same way ...
You are not obligated to insult people who insult you. It doesn't matter who started it.
"Man must evolve for all human conflict a method which rejects revenge, aggression and retaliation." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. |
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Re: Happy New Year To Everybody and Think About My Proposal |
by Wayne D. Pickette
waynedougpick (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
06 Jan 2005
|
ML, my Wife mentioned the derogatory comment about me to her article The Past, The Present, The Future, which I remember very well.
As I have written in my previous comment, if you are going to continue to talk to her disrespectfully on this web and to hide and delete her comments which you, yourself, are provoking, you are INSULTING by this behavior me, personally. |
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I Was Mistaken |
by ML
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
06 Jan 2005
|
Hi Wayne,
Then my memory failed me. Thus, it looks more like there has been only _minimal_ such comments visible here. I can say that have been more such comments posted here by the local troll who poses under a variety of names, which I have hidden, which is why you haven't seen them. If I missed one, I apologize.
But I do know that none of the regular IMC people who post here have said anything derogatory about you. In fact, we have tried to help with getting your story out. Given that we do have open publishing, there is no way to prevent people from commenting, only hide them if they violate our policies.
Speaking of the policies here, the reason why I am taking these steps with Anna is because she cannot refrain from making baseless and untruthful charges against a number of IMC volunteers and other people in the community. If she does that, she can probably expect people to object and some of those objections will not be polite. Generally, those people who have made comments that Anna has found troubling do so on a one time basis and have not made a pattern or vendetta about it. That is the difference between those comments and how they are dealt with and her continuing abusive behavior, which now constitues a pattern of abuse that I have to address.
We do NOT generally hide occassional violations of our rules, only when a persistent pattern of such abuse has become plain and where other means of trying to come to an understanding about what our policies require seems to have become something that the person is unwilling to agree to. We have, unfortunately, reached that point with Anna.
I have given her a number of explanations and warnings about what she needs to do to prevent her postings from being hidden. I will restate this here just to be clear.
#1 No derogatory comments shall be directed at any IMC volunteer, period.
#2 No comments about IMC editorial policy, period.
If she will abide by these two simple understandings, then there will be no more problems with her posts being hidden. She still has the option to email the Web group about her concerns or to appear or send a representative to a Steering meeting to discuss this.
If she refuses to abide by these two simple requests, then her comments will continue to be hidden.
If she persists in doing this much longer, then we will eventually do what we have done to only three other people -- we will ban ANYTHING she posts here. This will however, end any chance that anyone will make any comments (of any kind) to her posts, so there will be no future problems with that. But we really prefer NOT to have to take such a step, because we want this website to be as open as possible. |
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Note for Wayne and Anna |
by ML
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
06 Jan 2005
|
Wayne and Anna,
Earlier this afternoon, a post was made by the troll that purported to be from Wayne. If you detect any posts being made here that spoof being from you, please let us know by emailing us at imc-web(no spam)ucimc.org and we will delete them. |
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Let's Not Go There |
by ML
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
06 Jan 2005
|
Wayne,
If it is _you_ reposting stuff from Jack Ryan/BobbyLee/or whatever he is calling himself these days in these comments, please do not do so. They will be hidden.
That person is banned from this site, so I have hidden the post reproducing his duplictious crap. I am completely certain you can stand up and speak for yourself without needing to qoute a troll.
And if it is Jack Ryan again posing as Wayne in posting that, well it goes to the same place as the rest of his crap. |
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Re: Happy New Year To Everybody and Think About My Proposal |
by John
johnweber4 (nospam) sbcglobal.net (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
06 Jan 2005
|
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Anna, Try submitting your story to this site. http://slashdot.org/. Seriously, if it gets accepted millions of people will see it. Good luck. |
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Fine ML I say it myself |
by Wayne Robert Douglas Pickette
waynedougpick (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
06 Jan 2005
|
I married Anna because I love her and she has a lot of knowledge in her head. If people would make practical use of that knowledge it would help immensely, but then that seems to be asking too much! She loves me because of my sky high thinking and practical applications for my inventions. She grew up with kids of similar bends in the former USSR. Nerds we call them here.
As I said, 98% of my high school compartiots think of me simply as classmate. The other 2% are not friends so I can't speak for them.
I do not see color as far as people are concerned, I think the World should take note.
The late Dr. Claude Shannon referred to me as a Black Thomas Alva Edison, I would have preferred him to say "A Modern Thomas Alva Edison" |
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Re: Happy New Year To Everybody and Think About My Proposal |
by Wayne Robert Douglas Pickette
waynedougpick (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
06 Jan 2005
|
Yes, it is all true, I was cited in the Live Oak High retired teachers newsletter (The Grapevine) by the woodshop/electronics instructor as his most rememberable student.These details are specified in that article and other articles he wrote later. He recently died, his Son forwarded all the articles to me after his death.
When I purchased the computer at age 17 it was written up in Electronic News. Dr. Shannon read the story and called my high school. Phil Meyers, the head of the Math department at the high school at the time spoke with him. Mr. Meyers also took me to meet Mr. Packard & Mr. Hewlet in 1968 at Packard's garage where they were working on the HP 9000 calculator.
When I left California to go to computer school in December 1967, Mr. Meyers gave me Dr. Shannons' phone number, saying I should give him a call before I left the Boston area. I called Dr,. Shannon, we met over a weekend, I spent 24 hours in his library, he lived in Ben Franklin's Sisters house, it had 14 fireplaces. I last spoke with Dr. Shannon in 1992 I believe, just before he died. Phil Meyers is still alive, I last spoke to him in 2002. |
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Re: Happy New Year To Everybody and Think About My Proposal |
by Anna Epelbaum
aepelbaum (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
07 Jan 2005
|
This is the response to the comment of Joe Futrelle, where he suggested that I and Wayne should follow Martin Luther King Jr. theory and practice of non violent resistance.
I have submitted to him one answer already, but it was either hidden or deleted. In this one I want to present the different point, "Don't you think, Joe, that something is very, very wrong with your establishment , if, in order to promote through its media channel such obvious case, as the one I and Wayne were and are promoting, we both need to use all over again the entire range of the technique of non violent resistance?" I think that the answer to my question is very clear. |
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Re: Happy New Year To Everybody and Think About My Proposal |
by Joe Futrelle
futrelle (nospam) shout.net (verified) |
Current rating: 0
07 Jan 2005
|
> This is the response to the comment of Joe Futrelle, where he suggested that I and Wayne should follow Martin Luther King Jr. theory and practice of non violent resistance. I have submitted to him one answer already, but it was either hidden or deleted. In this one I want to present the different point, "Don't you think, Joe, that something is very, very wrong with your establishment , if, in order to promote through its media channel such obvious case, as the one I and Wayne were and are promoting, we both need to use all over again the entire range of the technique of non violent resistance?" I think that the answer to my question is very clear.
You wish to except yourself from King's admonishment against retaliation? I don't think he meant it to be limited to only certain conflicts or struggles. He was calling for unconditional love as the basis of all human relations, as he so often did.
The IMC is not "my establishment". I am just a reader, like you are. I neither edit the site or participate in any IMC meetings. So you have now added me, without the slightest attention to who I really am or what I care about, to your ever-growing list of enemies. What possible good can that do? |
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Re: Happy New Year To Everybody and Think About My Proposal |
by Anna Epelbaum
aepelbaum (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
07 Jan 2005
|
Excuse me, I am not growing the list of enemies. You seem, according to your comments and articles, to be fully agreed with all IMC official policies. So, I assumed that you ARE fully agreed with all their policies. If I am mistaken, then I am sorry.
About unconditional love! Do you think those FBI or other agents, who are applying the described in Sasha Meinarth last article methods of interrogations are also doing it, as the expression of unconditional love, or what? Please, don't accuse me that I am mentioning her article (it seems that I am guilty, if I am mentioning anything, or anyone, which and who are presented on this board). I mentioned the content of this article, though I don't have any opinion of whether this article is truthful or not, as I see the very obvious and bright analogy with the situation we are discussing in these comments and the content of that article.
Many different people with very different personalities and opinions, who are "united" under the mutual code name "Jack Ryan", and called "trolls" seem to think exactly the same way. |
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Re: Happy New Year To Everybody and Think About My Proposal |
by Joe Futrelle
futrelle (nospam) shout.net (verified) |
Current rating: 0
08 Jan 2005
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> Do you think those FBI or other agents, who are applying the described in Sasha Meinarth last article methods of interrogations are also doing it, as the expression of unconditional love, or what?
Of course not! But King is saying that if someone hates us, we should respond to them with love, not more hate. What do you think of this principle?
> Please, don't accuse me that I am mentioning her article.
I wasn't planning on it. The editors may choose to hide your post, but that's their deal, not mine. Again, you may *assume* that I am some sort of agent of the editors, but you really ought to stop assuming things about me and start paying attention to who I really am and what I really care about, instead of who you imagine me to be. Then we can communicate on a real level instead of half-communicating in a context of imagination and innuendo.
By the way, it took me a while to figure out you mean Sasha when you say "her article"--he's not a woman. Which is something that is pretty easy to find out about him by reading stuff about him on this site. Again, when you assume things about people without verifying them, you end up writing stuff that's wrong or doesn't make any sense, which can cause unnecessary misunderstandings and hurt feelings. Sasha probably doesn't care about being mistaken for a woman because of his name, but some people might be offended by that kind of thing, and it's so easy to avoid with just a tiny amount of legwork. |
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Re: Happy New Year To Everybody and Think About My Proposal |
by Anna Epelbaum
aepelbaum (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
08 Jan 2005
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Listen, Joe, I am not a preacher, I am not a reverend also. My religion is good mixture of Atheism, which I was taught on mandatory basis, Judaism, the religion of my father, who came from the long chain of rabbis, practically in each generation of his family, and Orthodox Christianity. Due to some circumstances of my life, I have studied origins and development , and connections of Christianity and Judaism, etc., and have some background in both of these religions. However, under the current circumstances, it seems to me that instead of the teaching me to "love people who hate me and mistreat me, and to submit another cheek after the first one was already slapped", though their mistreatment is not only unfair and cruel, but even a kind of suicidal to them, themselves, you, if you are REALLY an activist in the struggle for human rights, progress, etc., should simply HELP me and my husband to promote our so obvious and urgent cause than to waste your own and our time, preaching to us the part of Christian teaching, which is the most seldom followed in the practical existence in general, and, obviously, not followed by the decisive leaders of this establishment. What are you, actually, trying to accomplish by this technique, but to try to convince me and my husband that he should sacrifice the productive and creative part of his life (what is left from it) and , maybe, his physical life (like Martin Luther King Jr. did) in order to IMPROVE the attitude of this society and this establishment? I recommend you to read again the content of the article, to which you are placing your comments. It seems that you have forgotten it.
By the way, I am having the dialog with you IN THE PERMANENT PRESENCE OF EDITORS. So, when I have written: "Don't accuse me.."-, it was addressed to them (ML or whoever). I am not assuming anything about you, I am looking for signatures under the possible petition. Whether Sasha is a male or a female is of no importance whatsoever, pertinent to this issue, don’t you agree?
In short, I don't want to have enemies on empty place, while promoting so obvious and urgent cause, which I and my husband are promoting. If prejudices, which are seemed to be in the blood streams of the majority of this establishment (see, I am not saying more that it is your establishment) are on the way of the common sense and urgent necessities of this society, I think that it is YOUR DUTY, as the duty of any other progressive member of this society, to struggle against them ACTIVELY, instead of the preaching of the love and forgiveness to these prejudices and their carriers. Start with the fighting your own prejudices, as I think, that they are just what is pushing you to choose the wrong tactic, and, maybe even the wrong side, in this conflict. Though I might be mistaken, and your obviously wrong tactic and wrong approach might be produced by some other reasons. |
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Related Article |
by regular reader
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
08 Jan 2005
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"When told of help, they immediately put the helper on the side of the enemy."
http://www.ucimc.org/newswire/display/23278/index.php |
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Re: Happy New Year To Everybody and Think About My Proposal |
by Anna Epelbaum
aepelbaum (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
08 Jan 2005
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The content of the last comment is a kind of very tricky to me, though I 've read the referred article. Maybe, the author is referring to the fact that 'someone', Bobby Lee, 'Casablanca', etc., etc. were advertised to be the "parts" of "Jack Ryan" and excommunicated from this board, after they expressed the support and approval to my cause and connected postings. Other people, who seemed supportive, like 'cris' and 'chuck' are also not appearing more on this board. Maybe, they are also considered to be "parts" of "Jack Ryan", who knows? This is the only connection with the referred article, which seems to be existing. |
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Re: Happy New Year To Everybody and Think About My Proposal |
by Joe Futrelle
futrelle (nospam) shout.net (verified) |
Current rating: 0
08 Jan 2005
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> if you are REALLY an activist in the struggle for human rights, progress, etc., should simply HELP me and my husband to promote our so obvious and urgent cause than to waste your own and our time, preaching to us the part of Christian teaching, which is the most seldom followed in the practical existence in general, and, obviously, not followed by the decisive leaders of this establishment.
It hurts my feelings for you to say that something I believe in is a waste of time. |
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Re: Help that is the enemy |
by Wayne Robert Douglas Pickette
waynedougpick (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
08 Jan 2005
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Dr. Martin Luther King, someone I knew and I was deeply saddened when he was killed. I can say the same for His Honor, Dr. Maurice Hardeman.
When I was age 5, in a ceremony where young people were made life members of the NAACP. Dr. King was in the greeting line in 1955 at San Jose, California. He shook my hand, then he handed me my membership plaque. We went on to have telephone conversations several times prior to his death.
Funny, my two mentors that were of the minority persuasion were both killed. While my mentors that were from the majority persuasion lived out their natural lives or are still alive. Quite an imbalance I would say. And it was created certainly not in the Christian way. |
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Re: Happy New Year To Everybody and Think About My Proposal |
by Anna Epelbaum
aepelbaum (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
09 Jan 2005
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Joe, it hurts much, much more than your feeling that, instead of the active support of such obvious cause, which we are discussing here, you are trying to organize with me the theological discussion. Progressive political activists (your articles are claiming that you consider yourself to be one) are supposed first of all to take care of the urgent needs of the society and only after that about their often unreasonably disturbed feelings. Once again , the discussion, which you are so persistently trying to organize with me is IRRELEVANT to the content of the initial article. It is “OFF TOPIC”. It looks like you don't want to sign the petition, and even, on the contrary, want to do your best to prolong or to eliminate it at all, and are looking currently for any possibility to do it. Sorry, but that is how your attempts to turn to the irrelevant trail are looking and would look for any unbiased reader. |
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Re: Happy New Year To Everybody and Think About My Proposal |
by Anna Epelbaum
aepelbaum (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
09 Jan 2005
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The fact that the comment, which obviously found to be "hilarious" the conversation about assassinations of minority leaders, is not hidden, in difference with a lot of other definitely non racist comments, just presents the bright confirmation of my statement that the overall attitude of this establishment is much, much closer to the official KKK attitude than to Martin Luther King Jr. dreams.
Once again, the entire long discussion about such OBVIOUSLY needed proposal is showing the ill attitude of the surrounding, and showing it very brightly. I AM SURE, HOWEVER, THAT A BIG NUMBER OF PEOPLE, WHO ARE EXCOMMUNICATED FROM THIS BOARD UNDER THE MUTUAL CODE NAME "JACK RYAN" PRESENTS THE MAJORITY OF THIS COMMUNITY. And the leaders of this establishment are presenting THE MINORITY OF THIS COMMUNITY. So, I don't think that either I and/or my husband should waste any more time and energy to continue this discussion. |
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Re: Happy New Year To Everybody and Think About My Proposal |
by semi-anonymous
noemail (nospam) email.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
09 Jan 2005
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Seriously, you guys are really hilarious. If I didn't know this was all a joke I would be concerned. Keep up the humor! I think I'll cancel my subscription to Mad magazine since this is better. |
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Re: Happy New Year To Everybody and Think About My Proposal |
by Anna Epelbaum
aepelbaum (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
09 Jan 2005
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What is about moving to a loony bean? No necessity to have any magazines and to post comments here, ah? Your comment was before my previous one, and now it is after.
It is probably editors of this web, who are giving you such fun, and mess up with these comments on purpose, as with a lot of others as well. Anyhow, dearest semi-anonymous,, assassinations of minority progressive leaders should not be 'fun" even for members of the modern version of Hitler Youth or KKK freshmen, whichever name you like better for this establishment and its activities. |
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Re: Happy New Year To Everybody and Think About My Proposal |
by Anna Epelbaum
aepelbaum (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
09 Jan 2005
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Bobby Lee, I don't know your e-mail address. So, could you send me over mine a bit of more information about these upcoming elections. Baldvin vs. Roberts, and Brandon vs. Casey. Thank you in advance. |
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Re: Happy New Year To Everybody and Think About My Proposal |
by Joe Futrelle
futrelle (nospam) shout.net (verified) |
Current rating: 0
09 Jan 2005
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> Joe, it hurts much, much more than your feeling that, instead of the active support of such obvious cause, which we are discussing here, you are trying to organize with me the theological discussion.
You have completely forgotten that I support your cause. I will gladly sign a petition that calls for your husband's achievements to be given the recognition they deserve.
But I will not listen to you denigrate my values anymore. My conversation with you is over. |
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Re: Happy New Year To Everybody and Think About My Proposal |
by Local Yocal
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
11 Jan 2005
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So...how's the petition drive coming along? |
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Re: Happy New Year To Everybody and Think About My Proposal |
by Wayne Robert Douglas Pickette
waynedougpick (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
12 Jan 2005
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I'll create a page on Moscow to Chicago.com where people can register their names and a vote (maybe comments also) I'll try to do it this weekend. If enough names are collected then we can see about placing the printout in a public place where the names may be signed & dated. Do you think that would work? |
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Re: Happy New Year To Everybody and Think About My Proposal |
by Local Yocal
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
12 Jan 2005
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I've never been to the Moscow to Chicago website, but if you think that's a good place to start then that's what you should do. What kind of public place do you have in mind? How many signatures are you striving to collect? And when do you plan to present your petition to Chancellor Herman? |
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Re: Happy New Year To Everybody and Think About My Proposal |
by Local Yocal
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
12 Jan 2005
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Mr. Pickette,
Have you a working prototype of your car engine? |
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Re: Happy New Year To Everybody and Think About My Proposal |
by Wayne Pickette
waynedougpick (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
12 Jan 2005
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I'm in the construction process of the first actual prototype of the Heat Motor. I carried out experiments in 1989-90 to determine the concept. The first application is in a wearable oxygen concentrator, where high power is required with an extremely high power to weight ratio. The construction is completely adverse to current norms, making my task difficult, but possible. The car application is also quite different, although a retrofit kit may be possible. My Cheatah design is based on 2006+ concepts, I am postulating that this vehicle could cross the country in the summertime at an average speed of 75 mph, on two fill-ups of fuel & sunlight.
I'll talk the petition over with Phil, when he returns. I'd love to collect as many signatures as possible, pages! March seems like a good time for the hare to approach with the petition. |
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Re: Happy New Year To Everybody and Think About My Proposal |
by Anna Epelbaum
aepelbaum (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
13 Jan 2005
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Dear Joe, it was you, who had completely forgotten that you HAD NOT PROVIDED ANY indication in THIS THREAD of comments that you were AGREED OR EVEN interested to sign the petition. Any other topic, irrelevant to this main content of my article, is IRRELEVANT to this thread of comments. Nobody offends your beliefs, your relatives, yourself, or anything of any value to you, you simply need TO START separate discussion on ANY of these topics, if you had wanted, wanted or want to discuss them in civil and orderly fashion, but you HAD NOT, DIDN'T (though I offered it to you in my comments) and chose to accuse me in: "But I will not listen to you denigrate my values anymore", though I never had chance to DISCUSS ANY OF SUCH VALUES, as this thread - no place for such discussions, and you never provided any other. I am glad that you agree to sign the petition (the goal of this thread), as by and on 1/8/05 you have not expressed such intention, and whether you are interested or not in any other or further communication with me, I am, certainly, not to blame for your choice. |
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Re: Happy New Year To Everybody and Think About My Proposal |
by Local Yocal
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
13 Jan 2005
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So....I'm trying to understand what the goals are here in this particular thread.......there is somewhere a petition. This petition is for the expressed purpose of recommending Wayne Pickett for the Nobel Prize for his invention of the microprocessor. This petition is then to be presented in March to Chancellor Herman. The Chancellor, impressed by the vast number of signatures, then sends Wayne's name on ahead to the Nobel Prize Committee, who then selects Wayne for the 2005 Nobel Prize. Wayne gets and keeps all the money and prestige whereby he then buys more equipment to finish inventing a car engine that does not run on fossil fuel. Is that the proposal? |
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