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Announcement :: Israel / Palestine
Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror! Current rating: 0
13 Jul 2006
Emergency Sign-Holding/Protest

When: 12noon-1pm, Friday, July 14
Where: UIUC Quad, near Student Union Entrance
Plan: Please Bring A Sign and Help Leaflet the Campus Community About the Escalating Middle East Crisis
Emergency Sign-Holding/Protest

When: 12noon-1pm, Friday, July 14
Where: UIUC Quad, near Student Union Entrance
Plan: Please Bring A Sign and Help Leaflet the Campus Community About the Escalating Middle East Crisis

****************
Dear Allies in the Struggle for Justice in Palestine:

Using the capture of one of its soldiers as the pretext, the Israeli Occupation Forces launched a brutal assault on the entire population of Gaza in the early morning hours of June 28, terrorizing the civilian population. The people of Gaza remain without water and electricity. The use of U.S. planes and other military goods against illegally occupied territories is a violation of both international and U.S. law.

Israel's terror has now spread to Lebanon, and Israeli military officials have declared that "Lebanon's clock will be turned back 20 years." In other words, Israel is planning a massive humanitarian crisis that includes the targeting of the civilian population and the country's infrastructure. Dawn air strikes on south Lebanon on 13 July 2006 claimed the lives of at least 44 civilians, including over 15 children, and wounded over 100. Israel bombed bridges linking the north and south of the country and all three runways of Beirut's commercial airport.

Join us in an emergency response on campus!

END THE SIEGE OF GAZA!
STOP ISRAELI TERROR!
END ALL U.S. AID TO ISRAEL!

From Iraq to Palestine, Occupation is a Crime!
Not another nickel, not another dime, no more money for Israel's crimes!

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The Progressives of Hezbollah
Current rating: 0
13 Jul 2006
Click on image for a larger version

hezbollah salute.jpg
@%<
More Hezbollah Progressives
Current rating: 0
13 Jul 2006
Click on image for a larger version

Lebanese_Hezbollah_recruts_being_sworn_in.jpg
@%<
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
13 Jul 2006
I'll be there to protest the terror on Israel and the threats to that sovereign nation by other countries.
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
13 Jul 2006
-According to the BBC, more than 50 people, mostly civilians, have been killed in the attacks in Lebanon alone, including at least 15 children.
-Infrstructure is being targeted
-more than 700,000 people in Gaza are without water or electiricty

the use of force is DISPROPORTIANATE. ALL forms of terrorism are inhumane and deplorable, including terrorism by the racist, apartheid regime: |srael
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
13 Jul 2006
Previously, an outrageous comment was posted by a Zionist that called Palestinians terrorists and baby-killers that has since been deleted. Such comments only expose the true nature of Zionism and its racist underpinnings. The deletion of this comment is a victory for our side, and the protest tomorrow is an important step in showing our solidarity with the Palestinian People and for mobilizing for justice in the Middle East.
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
13 Jul 2006
It's probably unrealistic to ask for civility here. The vile poem was indeed deleted. Any anti-Semitic comments will also be removed.
Well, Maybe
Current rating: 0
14 Jul 2006
Martin,
I actually would think a better guess would be that it was one of our resident trolls. We get that kind of thing being an IMC. Going back a long way, the vast percentage of rabid postings from one side or another in this conflict on this website -- and sadly, too, on a large part of Indymedia -- actually originate from one person who is clearly playing both sides of the road, agitating just for the sake of stirring hate. That could lead to a long discussion, but suffice to say that's there's extensive evidence of this. You won't see that crap on this website other than very briefly, before it goes away.

Then there's Jack. Ditto, as they say in his world.

Then's there the passionate partisans of one side or the other who want to have an honest, open discussion and post things that resemble news in consonant with Indymedia principles. That's who Indymedia is here to serve.

Whosever comment it was, it was the typical hatefilled trollage that by policy goes to file 13 here. Generally, we prefer to look at such material as not contributing to a productive discussion. I'd rather hope we can all rise above that level of commentary, but, well, it's a passionate subject.

I am always struck at how people throw terms like "terrorist" around, but always practice "just war" when it's their own side they're talking about. I think ALL sides need to take two steps back and think about the very real suffering they are causing people in the name of a cause -- whosever cause it is. I'm not naive about the way the world works -- people choose violence, like they choose any other vice. Sometimes it works -- a lot of the time it's just a bad choice.

For my two cents, the Fatah political leadership, now disposed by Hamas -- which itself was an institution originally fostered by Israeil, ironically enough -- for all its corruption and general tomfoolery at times in the past, is actually sounding like the most sane bunch in this whole pot currrently, which says someting about the feet of clay of people like Bush wagging his finger at the Israelis. And the disproportionate use of violence and its implicit collective punishment of civilian populations is our era's "strategic bombing" -- something that is easy to justify when it happens to the "other" but history will judge and people who think they should never forget should keep in mind that others can take that up, too, if it's always to be seen as a call to arms, rather than diplomacy.

I think there's plenty of blood on the hands of many to go around here -- and much better ways of achieving any reasonable goal.

Let's all please try to keep this discussion civil or we're not helping anyone. There's already enough zero-sum insanity going around in the real world. I'd prefer that an IMC be a part of the solution, rather than duplicating the problems we're discussing. That is my way of helping make the virtual real.
Not even Saudi Arabia is buying it
Current rating: 0
14 Jul 2006
Heck, not even Saudi Arabia is buying the Hamas/Hizbollah line this time --

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?
type=newsOne&storyID=2006-07-13T214914Z_01_L13880815_RTRUKOC_0_US-MIDEAST-LEBANON-SAUDI.xml

Saudi Arabia on Thursday blamed "elements" inside Lebanon for the violence with Israel, in unusually frank language directed at guerrilla group Hizbollah and its Iranian backers.

"A distinction must be made between legitimate resistance and uncalculated adventures undertaken by elements inside (Lebanon) and those behind them without recourse to the legal authorities and consulting and coordinating with Arab nations," a statement published on the official news agency SPA said.

"These elements should bear the responsibility for their irresponsible actions and they alone should end the crisis they have created."

---

@%<
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
14 Jul 2006
When someone writes anything that conveys a different opinion he/she is labeled a "troll," ergo, someone who agrees must then be a "Stepford imcer." makes sense to me. I guess one must think exactly alike everyone else in order to be accepted in this arena. God forbid someone thinks that PT was guilty or LH was fired appropriately. How dare anyone think like that---
Then Don't Act Like a Troll
Current rating: 0
14 Jul 2006
There's plenty of disagreement here, at least for those posters who want to actually articulate an argument.

Then there are the trolls.

Now there are people who insist they are not trolls, but insist on the right to act like troll, throwing out cheap shots and anonymously whining about editorial policies. Over the years, the IMC has seen plenty of this and decided to put an end to it. I supported that. I suggest participating in F2F meetings if you want to change the policy, instead of whining about it here.

Or you might try constructing and articulating an argument. That might keep you from being taken as a troll. It seems to work for others.
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
14 Jul 2006
Oh, longtime reader- believe me, I have definitely tried to "articulate" my opinions when they differ from others on this website. Yet when I do, I am just deleted- so I stopped doing that- because if I differ than I am just discounted and disregarded. So I have tried.... and I won't be a "stepford imcer"
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
14 Jul 2006
Martin: "the protest tomorrow is an important step in showing our solidarity with the Palestinian People and for mobilizing for justice in the Middle East."

I buzzed by about 12:30, and found pretty much nothing. Half a dozen people distributing recycled ANSWER propaganda doth not an "important step" make, except maybe in ANSWER-speak.

@%<
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
15 Jul 2006
www.arab-american.net

Support the Palestinian People!


Let us get straight to the point. The world has become shamelessly accustomed to scenes of Israeli forces at will brutalizing Palestinians.

During this latest case, however, the situation has become that much more painful. The attacks are taking place at the peak of a US-Israeli imposed international starvation and strangulation campaign that not even Arab states dared to challenge. Israeli heavy artillery and high explosive missiles have been raining from US-fighter jets on bridges, power plants and water supply facilities in the Gaza Strip on a population denied even its daily bread and the most basic of medications.

To add insult to injury, as of writing this statement, 64 Palestinian governmental ministers, democratically- elected members of the legislative council (the Palestinian parliament), and mayors of various cities have been kidnapped from their homes, with various assassinations by the Israeli Occupation Forces (IOF) promised to come, including of the Palestinian prime minister himself.

Where else is this travesty allowed to occur?

The Israeli government claims to be "searching" for one occupying soldier - what about the nearly 9,000 current Palestinian prisoners in Israeli prison camps? Under its illegal occupation, the Israeli government continues to imprison over 9,000 Palestinians, all systematically jailed, tortured or held hostage - the majority without even a farce of a trial . Since 1967 alone, over 650,000 Palestinians have been detained, amounting to 40% of the male population of the Palestinian West Bank and Gaza Strip. Who in the international community is searching for them?

The Israeli government, a nuclear power with an unmatched US-supplied arsenal, is claiming to seek "security". From whom, we ask? The population under attack is the most impoverished in the region. Nearly all were made refugees at least once as a result of their expulsion by Zionist forces from their homes in 1948, when 75% of the Palestinians were made homeless and Zionist colonists occupied 78% of Palestine. Many are refugees twice, the second time when they were dispossessed in 1967. Some are three and four times refugees, as they are made homeless by U.S.-supplied and sanctioned bulldozers time and time again, up to this very day as they continue to face the Zionist colonial occupation of their land.

The Role of Arab and International Solidarity and the US Peace Movement

The NCA affirms that without Arab depth and without an international solidarity movement that squarely realizes the significance of the Palestinian struggle and supports their movement for liberation, the victimization of the Palestinian Arab people will continue unabated.

Furthermore, the U.S. peace movement has the moral duty to take a consistent position in solidarity with the Palestinian people to prevent the wanton destruction that is currently taking place with the explicit support and reinforcement of the U.S. government. Our community should not have to argue for the inclusion of Palestine in the anti-war movement, nor should we be subjected to the disgraceful removal of Palestinian symbolism from any anti-war protest stage. To place Palestine aside to please any of the US political parties is morally corrupt and helps to produce the sort of isolation that enables such destruction in Palestine to take place.

The Arab American and the Palestinian community cannot stand silent as some of our own organizations malign the struggle of the Palestinian Arab people and systematically introduce the notions of defeat into our young. Such organizations seek an obedient position at the doorstep of the US State Department and stand outside the Arab consensus. They must not and can not speak on our behalf.

Take Action

The NCA calls on our community to stand together at this difficult time. We call on all to join the planned protests in their various cities across the US and to express their views in media outlets.
from chicago indymedia
Current rating: 0
16 Jul 2006
Here's an interesting post from the thread on chicago indymedia:

In any case, I feel like this movement has become afraid to disrupt. But, without disruption what is the point? Are we going to just get upset and yell at brick walls when some horrific act of violence occurs? Is that the goal? Do we even have goals? Yesterday we were there to speak a message, albeit not a consistent or clear message, but a message no less. The problem is that we do not even consider why we are doing this or to whom we are speaking. If we were speaking to the Israeli consulate, they certainly were not listening. If we were speaking to those passing by who might disagree with us, they definitely will ignore us after some of the more violent types shouted angrily that they were murderers for disagreeing with us. The gentleman pictured above with the “Jail the Bush Family” sticker even heckled a supporter, by violently accusing them of not doing enough to stop this. As if standing behind a cage, looking like a crazed lunatic to 80+% of the population, is doing enough. We do not have a message to give, and even if we did we do not know who we are speaking to or what we are trying to accomplish.

I'm just really tired of people trying to end a war though not so clever rhetoric. This is not action. Something violent in the world happens, we hold our cardboard and then we go home. Even that would be OK if there was a consistent and correctly spelled message, and we held cardboard when and where we wanted to, not behind cages. Everyone wants to be a martyr. We want a romantic movement, wherein we are the underdogs and are oppressed and we are standing with an oppressed people. But, we are holding ourselves back. This movement wants to stand for peace, but dismisses violence done against Israeli people as some more noble Robin Hood-esque resistance. People are still dying, and instead of trying to stop it, we are choosing sides. Even when this movement romanticizes the violent resistance in Gaza, we still will not bother to peacefully resist on the sidewalks of Chicago. We voluntarily give up our rights at the police’s request. What are we afraid of? What happens if we refuse to comply with the police? Would they arrest us? At least then, when we cry about oppression, we would be right. More importantly, we would have interrupted business-as-usual.

This movement is getting stale. Everyone is so bored. There is no energy and nobody has to risk anything. There's no passion for resistance, just the occasional burnt out asshole who wants to start a fight. What is the point of that? It just feels like there is no organization. We have no message besides anger. Anger at everything. No goals but to feel righteous about our cause. But shouldn’t we step back for a minute and find out what our cause is and how we can accomplish it, because this sure as hell isn’t working.

http://chicago.indymedia.org/newswire/display/73048/index.php

@%<
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
16 Jul 2006
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Contact: Merrilyn Onisko, monisko at yahoo.com

The National Lawyers Guild Strongly Condemns Israel's Crimes Against Humanity and Demands Israel Immediately Halt Its Siege on Gaza and End Its Efforts at Toppling the Democratically Elected Palestinian Legislative Council

The National Lawyers Guild calls upon the international community to join us in our strong condemnation and call for sanctions against Israel for its on-going occupation and crimes against humanity meted-out against the Palestinians. Israel has recently intensified its relentless saturation bombing against the Palestinian civilian population. On June 27, 2006, Israeli F-16's directly targeted Palestinian civilians by bombing and destroying three vital bridges, ministerial buildings, universities, scarce water supplies, and electricity stations. As a direct consequence, over two-thirds of the Palestinian population in Gaza have been and continue to be denied access to water and electricity.

Magnifying the deadly impact of Israel's actions is the fact that well before Israel's recent military incursion, Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank were already facing a lethal humanitarian crisis stemming from extensive shortages of food, medicine, clean drinking water, and lack of access to public utilities— Israel's admitted "starvation diet" campaign.

A single snapshot of Israel's ruthless bombardment reveals Palestinians trapped in Gaza—the most densely populated region on Earth—suffered through one of the most ferocious days of bombing, on June 29, 2006, when Israel's Occupation Forces (IOF) launched over 400 artillery shells throughout the northern and southern Gaza Strip. Further intensifying Israel 's willful and ever-increasing violations of international law, Israel has drastically increased its kidnapping of Palestinian leaders, "arresting" more than 64 elected Palestinian Legislative Council members, city mayors, cabinet ministers, and lawmakers.

Currently, the rapidly deteriorating humanitarian disaster faced by Palestinians continues uninterrupted while Israeli tanks and armed forces have now returned to Gaza under the cover of sustained bombing raids by Israeli F-16 jets and relentless shelling by Israeli artillery.

Accordingly, the National Lawyers Guild:

1) Demands Israel immediately cease all military attacks and lift the economic embargo imposed on Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

2) Demands Israel immediately and unconditionally releases the recently kidnapped Palestinian parliamentary officials as well as all Palestinian Arab political prisoners and detainees.

3) Urges the international community to pressure Israel, the United States, and Europe to lift the deadly economic embargo unjustly imposed against the Palestinian people following the democratic election of a new Palestinian Legislative Council.

4) Strongly condemns Israel's use of brutal psychological warfare on the over 1.4 million Palestinians living in the Israeli occupied Gaza Strip to weaken and destroy the democratically elected Palestinian Legislative Council.

5) Strongly condemns Israel's actions designed to achieve its threat that it "will not allow the Palestinian government to survive."

6) Calls upon the international community to join in our strong condemnation of Israel's belligerent crimes against humanity and gross violations of international law, including Article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention prohibiting collective punishment and Article 48 forbidding military actions against civilian populations and infrastructure.

7) Emphasizes the international community must continue to insist Israel immediately implement other international laws including U.N. Resolution 194.

8) Stresses while condemnation of Israel's most recent crimes against humanity is critical, the international community must weave together, and not isolate, the snapshots of Israel's gross violations of international law.

9) Further stresses the full-picture revealed by weaving together Israel's unbroken pattern of crimes against humanity plainly uncovers the following reality: for nearly six decades Israel has been engaged in well-planned, systematic, and continuous campaign intended to destroy the Palestinian people, culture, civil society and the infrastructure of life itself (see In the Name of Security: Israel and the Destruction of Palestinian Culture & Civil Society, Preliminary Report of The National Lawyers Guild's Emergency Delegation to the West Bank May 16-24, 2002)

10) Calls upon the international community to expose the myth that Israel has "disengaged" from Gaza despite Israel's continued control of Gaza's airspace, sea space, land borders, public services (including water, sewage, electricity, and telecommunication networks).

11) Calls upon the international community to send immediate aid to Palestinians, including food, water, and medicine.

12) Urges the international community to step-up its efforts to boycott, sanction, and divest from Israel.
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
17 Jul 2006
Yes, Matt, you are absolutely correct. It is their way or the highway- nobody can dare to have an opinion other than the ones they profess- Maybe they should put out a new how to handbook- "The world according to IMC"- so everyone knows how to think and what to say and how to say it.
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
17 Jul 2006
Nonsense. All you have to do is look at this thread, and you'll see a variety of opinions, from cookie-cutter ANSWER-speak to the comment I posted from Chicago, "This movement wants to stand for peace, but dismisses violence done against Israeli people as some more noble Robin Hood-esque resistance."

@%<
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
17 Jul 2006
Monday, July 17, 2006 by the Inter Press Service
Fleeing Lebanese Speak of Indiscriminate Bombing
by Dahr Jamail

ADDABBAOUSIYEH (northern Lebanese border) - People fleeing the bombing of Lebanon say the Israelis are targeting civilian neighbourhoods and vital infrastructure, and not just Hezbollah centres.

The bombing has killed more than 100 Lebanese civilians so far.

Several border points between Syria and Lebanon are being deluged with refugees. Lebanon has a long border with Syria towards its south, east and north. The refugees include both Lebanese and tourists.

"Everything is being bombed," a teacher from the United States who was on vacation in Beirut told IPS. "It's terror. We've literally been terrorised."

Twenty-five-year-old social studies teacher Abdul Rahman was living with his family in downtown Beirut near the United Nations building before they all decided to flee.

"We have not slept for three days because we were living in terror and never knew when the Israelis would bomb us since they were hitting everything," he told IPS.

"If they want to hit Hezbollah, let them hit Hezbollah, but not the civilians. But civilians are all that they are hitting."

His mother feared for her 96-year-old father who they had to leave behind. "We cannot move him because he is too frail," she said. "And now all we can do is worry, since the Israelis are taking it out on the innocent people."

On Sunday, the Israeli army also re-entered the Palestinian-ruled Gaza Strip. According to reports from Gaza, three members of Hamas were killed after Israeli tanks and bulldozers entered Beit Hanun town early morning.

Gunfire and shelling by the Israelis is also reported to have killed a 75-year-old woman and wounded 10 others, along with a baby.

Israel launched several air strikes in Gaza as well. An Israeli army spokeswoman claimed they destroyed a Hamas operations room in the Jabaliya refugee camp.

Israel's stated goal in Gaza is to free a soldier captured by Hamas. So far Israeli actions there have left one Israeli soldier dead, along with 82 Palestinians.

Hamas is demanding the release of prisoners from Israeli jails in exchange for the Israeli soldier.

Israel is now embroiled in fighting on two fronts. The impact of the fighting with Lebanon is being felt widely in Syria.

Abud Aziz, a 31-year-old Lebanese pastry chef from Beirut crossed the border into Syria carrying his suitcase and looking for food and water. There had been no water or electricity in Beirut since Saturday, he said.

"Yesterday I saw two hospitals bombed," he told IPS. "Nobody who remains in Beirut can be safe. No way."

A 25-year-old construction worker named Hamed also said he saw warplanes bomb a hospital in Beirut.

"I saw them bomb a hospital yesterday," he told IPS. "I left just hours ago. They are bombing everything -- houses, casinos, fuel stations and so many bridges."

Meanwhile, on Sunday Hezbollah fired more than 20 rockets into the city of Haifa, Israel's third largest city, killing eight and wounding at least a dozen.

The Hezbollah clearly have the means to strike back at Israel. They are a well-armed and well-organised political and military group of Shia Muslims in Lebanon. Sustained military attacks by the Hezbollah forced Israel to vacate southern Lebanon in May 2000.

But the Hezbollah are not supported by all Lebanese. About 60 percent of the 3.8 million population of Lebanon is Muslim, most of them Shia. This is where Hezbollah draws its support.

The rest of the population is almost all Christian. A 15-year civil war between Muslim and Christian groups ended in 1991. The Hezbollah are believed to draw more support from outside the country than from many within.

In the wake of Hezbollah strikes into Israel, Israeli authorities have declared a 48-hour period of martial law over the northern part of the country. Hezbollah groups have fired more than 400 rockets into Israel, killing at least 16 civilians in the last five days.

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert warned Lebanon of "far-reaching" consequences after the rocket attacks. The Israeli army said that it had warned all civilians to leave southern Lebanon.

Many of those who have left report panic conditions in Lebanon. "The Israelis bombed a bridge to the airport near us and killed many people," 26-year-old Hasna told IPS. "When other people went on the bridge to help the wounded, the planes bombed it again."

Ambulances are usually not available because of the danger, she said. "We were the last people to leave our area. The road there was nearly empty."

Alham Aras, a Danish woman who was vacationing in Tripoli in Lebanon, drove up to the border with her six children Sunday. She said she had left on instructions from her embassy.

"The warplanes bombed the Palestinian camps in Tripoli," she said, "They are attacking up and down the coast, and the port in Tripoli was also attacked."

Her 14-year-old daughter Barihan al-Jassim said, "Somebody should stop this madness. How is it possible for a country to be bombed like this and nobody stops them from doing it?"
Copyright © 2006 IPS-Inter Press Service
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
18 Jul 2006
If I may quote Gehrig: "Nonsense. All you have to do is look at this thread," You know Gehrig, that's kind of the point here. I see pro Israeli posts for one or two seconds and they are deleted.

You might want to take another look at Gehrig's responses to the original post.

I am happy to read the thread, if all of the thread is included. What I see are comment s "15" and actual posts that are approved "7".

You seem somewhat ... mathematically challenged. I counted far more than 7 posts before the one I'm quoting that were approved.

Surely these are not all trolls and even if they are, what makes you think that we are too stupid to recoginize one?

Let's not even go there.
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
18 Jul 2006
Actually, it's not just Saudi Arabia, today the Arab League just gave Hezbollah the blame they certainly deserved for instigating this recent escalation and bloodshed.

By the way, it was depressing to see the "Nationals Lawyers Guild" actually take a view of terrorism so utterly contrary to public international law.
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
18 Jul 2006
Questions and Answers on Hostilities Between Israel and Hezbollah
16 Jul 2006 23:43:48 GMT
Source: Human Rights Watch

Israeli-Palestinian conflictQuestions and Answers on Hostilities Between Israel and Hezbollah

[This was posted in a garbled form; I've gotten the original text from HRW. -- @%<]

(Beirut, July 17, 2006) – On July 12, Hezbollah launched an attack on Israeli positions on the Israeli side of the Lebanese border, killing three Israeli soldiers and capturing two. In response, Israel launched air and artillery attacks against targets throughout Lebanon, including Beirut’s international airport, bridges and highways, and Hezbollah offices. It also instituted an air, sea, and land blockade. According to media reports at the time of writing, Israeli attacks have killed at least 110 civilians and wounded more than 235 in Lebanon. Hezbollah forces have launched more than 800 rockets across the border into northern Israel, as far south as Tiberias (35km/22 miles south of the border), killing 12 civilians and injuring more than 100.

The following questions and answers set out some of the legal rules governing the various actions taken by Israel and Hezbollah to date in this recent conflict. Human Rights Watch sets out these rules before it has been able to conduct extensive on-the-ground investigation. The purpose is to provide analytic guidance for those who are examining the fighting as well as for the parties to the conflict and those with the capacity to influence them.

This Q & A addresses only the rules of international humanitarian law, known as jus in bello, which govern the way each party to the armed conflict must conduct itself in the course of the hostilities. It does not address whether Hezbollah was justified in attacking Israel, whether Israel was justified in attacking Lebanon for the conduct of Hezbollah, or other matters concerning the legitimacy of resorting to war. In accordance with its institutional mandate, Human Rights Watch maintains a position of strict neutrality on these issues of jus ad bellum because we find it the best way to promote our primary goal of encouraging both sides in the course of the conflict to respect international humanitarian law.

What international humanitarian law applies to the current conflict between Israel and Hezbollah?

The current armed conflict between Hezbollah and Israel is governed by international treaty as well as the rules of customary international humanitarian law. The treaty, specifically, common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions of 1949 to which Israel is a party, sets forth minimum standards for all parties to a conflict between a state party such as Israel and a non-state party such as Hezbollah. The customary rules are based on established state practice, and bind all parties to an armed conflict, whether state actors or non-state armed groups.

International humanitarian law is designed mainly to protect civilians and other noncombatants from the hazards of armed conflict. Among the customary rules, parties that engage in hostilities must distinguish at all times between combatants and noncombatants. As discussed below, warring parties are required to take all feasible precautions to minimize harm to civilians and civilian objects and to refrain from attacks that would disproportionately harm the civilian population or fail to discriminate between combatants and civilians.

Common Article 3 provides a number of fundamental protections for noncombatants, which include those who are no longer taking part in hostilities, such as captured combatants, and those who have surrendered or are unable to fight because of wounds or illness. The article prohibits violence against these noncombatants -- particularly murder, cruel treatment and torture -- as well as outrages against their personal dignity and degrading or humiliating treatment. It also prohibits the taking of hostages and "the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions" if basic judicial guarantees have not been observed.

Israel has asserted on several occasions since hostilities began on July 12 that it considers itself to be responding to the actions of the sovereign state of Lebanon, not just Hezbollah. If Israel considers itself to be at war with another sovereign state -- that is, if it considers itself involved in an interstate conflict -- then it must accept being bound by the full scope of the Geneva Conventions with their far more extensive rules, not simply those of common Article 3. To the extent that Lebanese forces were to join the hostilities, they, too, would be bound by the full Geneva Conventions, to which Lebanon is also a party. However, this Q & A limits itself to the more focused requirements of customary law and common Article 3, since they have greatest relevance to the conflict as it so far has been waged.

What is Hezbollah's status in relation to the conflict?

Hezbollah is an organized political Islamist group based in Lebanon, with a military arm and a civilian arm, and is represented in the Lebanese parliament and government. As such a group, and as a party to the conflict with Israel, it is bound to conduct hostilities in compliance with customary international humanitarian law and common Article 3, which as stated above applies to conflicts that are not interstate but between a state and a non-state actor. As is explicitly stated in common Article 3, and made clear by the commentaries of the International Committee of the Red Cross, the application of the provisions of common Article 3, as well as customary international law, to Hezbollah does not affect its legal status.

Was Hezbollah's capture of Israeli soldiers lawful?

The targeting and capture of enemy soldiers is allowed under international humanitarian law. However captured combatants must in all circumstances be treated humanely.

Hezbollah leader Hassan Nassrallah has stated that the captured soldiers will be used to negotiate the release of Palestinian, Lebanese and other Arab prisoners from Israel. The use of captives who are no longer involved in the conflict for this purpose constitutes hostage-taking. Hostage-taking as part of an armed conflict is strictly forbidden under international law, by both common Article 3 and customary international law, and is a war crime.

Which targets are Israel and Hezbollah entitled to attack under international humanitarian law?

Two fundamental tenets of international humanitarian law are those of "civilian immunity" and the principle of "distinction." They impose a duty to distinguish at all times in the conduct of hostilities between combatants and civilians, and to target only the former. It is forbidden in any circumstance to direct attacks against civilians; indeed, as noted, to do so intentionally amounts to a war crime.

It is also generally forbidden to direct attacks against what are called "civilian objects," such as homes and apartments, places of worship, hospitals, schools, or cultural monuments, unless they are being used for military purposes. Military objects that are legitimately subject to attack are those that make an "effective" contribution to military action and whose destruction, capture or neutralization offers a "definite military advantage." Where there is doubt about the nature of an object, it must be presumed to be civilian.

The mere fact that an object has civilian uses does not necessarily render it immune from attack. It, too, can be targeted if it makes an "effective" contribution to the enemy's military activities and its destruction, capture or neutralization offers a "definite military advantage" to the attacking side. However, such "dual use" objects might also be protected by the principle of proportionality, described below.

Even when a target is serving a military purpose, precautions must always be taken to protect civilians.

Is Hezbollah's firing of rockets into Israel lawful under international humanitarian law?

As a party to the armed conflict, Hezbollah has a legal duty to protect the life, health and safety of civilians and other non-combatants. The targeting of military installations and other military objectives is permitted but Hezbollah must take all feasible precautions to avoid civilian harm and is prohibited from targeting civilians, launching indiscriminate attacks, or attacking military objects if the anticipated harm to civilians and other noncombatants will be disproportionate to the expected military advantage. Hezbollah's commanders must choose the means of attack that can be directed at military targets and will minimize incidental harm to civilians. If the weapons used are so inaccurate that they cannot be directed at military targets without imposing a substantial risk of civilian harm, then they should not be deployed. Deliberately attacking civilians is in all circumstances prohibited and a war crime.

While Human Rights Watch has not yet conducted a field examination to determine whether any of these attacks aimed to target a military object, preliminary information suggests that rockets fired by Hezbollah may be so inaccurate as to be incapable of being targeted, but are rather used to target a generalized area. As Human Rights Watch said in a 1997 report on Lebanon and Israel, "Katyushas are inaccurate weapons with an indiscriminate effect when fired into areas where civilians are concentrated. The use of such weapons in this manner is a blatant violation of international humanitarian law." That is, their use in civilian areas violates the prohibition on indiscriminate attacks and would be a war crime. Customary international law prohibits such bombardment near or in any area containing a concentration of civilians, even if there are believed to be military objectives in the area.

Does international humanitarian law permit Israel to bomb the Beirut airport?

Airports in certain circumstances may be dual-use targets, in that they might be used both for military purposes such as military re-supply and to provide transport and provisions for the civilian population. However, as primarily a civilian object, the Beirut airport can become a military objective only if it is in fact providing an "effective" contribution to the enemy's military activities and its destruction or neutralization provides "a definite military advantage." Its status as a legitimate military objective would exist only for such time as it meets the foregoing criteria. International humanitarian law requires everything feasible to be done to verify that targets are in fact military objectives. Even if they are, the impact on civilians must be carefully weighed under the principle of proportionality against the military advantage served; all ways of minimizing the impact on civilians must be considered; and attacks should not be undertaken if the civilian harm outweighs the definite military advantage, or if a similar military advantage could be secured with less civilian harm.

According to an Israel Defense Forces (IDF) statement, the justification for targeting the Beirut airport is that it "constitutes a station for the transport of arms and infrastructure used by Hezbollah" and as such "represents a serious threat." It has also been suggested that the airport could be used to transport the captured Israeli soldiers out of the area. However, these justifications are at best debatable. Israel has not claimed that the transport of arms was current or underway. It is thus unclear why Israel could not have waited to see whether such supply operations actually began and only then targeted either particular flights or, if necessary, the airport at that time. Instead, Israel has attacked Beirut airport on a number of occasions, without any publicly available evidence that it has been used for any recent transport of arms or troops. As for the possible use of the airport to transport the captured Israeli soldiers out of Lebanon, the military advantage of destroying the airport is negligible in comparison with the civilian cost, given the many alternative routes out of Lebanon along its long border with Syria. On the other hand, the civilian cost of targeting the airport is high, since it impedes the ability of civilians in Lebanon to escape the fighting or those who remain to receive provisions.

The real, unstated reason for Israel's attack on the airport may be precisely to impose a cost on Lebanese civilians to encourage them to press their government to rein in Hezbollah. Leaving aside the question of whether the Lebanese government is militarily capable of reining in Hezbollah, it is illegal under international humanitarian law, as noted below, to use military force to squeeze the civilian population, to enhance its suffering, or to undermine its morale, regardless of the ultimate purpose. Under these circumstances, the attack on the Beirut airport does not appear to have been legitimate under the standards of international humanitarian law.

Is Israel entitled to target Lebanese infrastructure such as roads, bridges, and power stations?

Like airports, roads and bridges may be dual-use targets if actually used for military purposes. Even then, the same rule applies requiring the parties to the conflict to weigh carefully the impact on civilians against the military advantage served; they must consider all ways of minimizing the impact on civilians; and they should not undertake attacks if the civilian harm outweighs the definite military advantage. Human Rights Watch has not yet done the field research that would enable the organization to assess the legitimacy of Israeli attacks on Lebanese roads and bridges, but among the factors to be considered are whether the destruction of particular roads or bridges serve in fact to impede military transport in light of readily alternative routes -- that is, whether the infrastructure attacked is making an "effective" contribution to Hezbollah's military action and its destruction offers a "definite military advantage" -- or whether its destruction seems aimed more at inconveniencing the civilian population and even preventing it from fleeing the fighting and seeking safety.

As for electrical facilities supplying the civilian population, they almost never are legitimate military targets. On the one hand, they might be considered dual-use targets, given that both civilians and armies use electricity. On the other hand, the harm to civilians is often enormous, affecting refrigeration, sanitation, hospitals, and other necessities of modern life; in urban society, electricity is arguably "indispensable to the survival of the civilian population," meaning that it can be attacked only in extremely narrow circumstances. Meanwhile, the military effect of targeting electrical facilities serving the civilian population often can be achieved in more focused ways, such as by attacking military facilities themselves or the portion of an electrical grid directly serving a military facility. Although final judgment must await a more detailed on-the-ground investigation, Israel faces a very high burden to justify these attacks.

Is Israel entitled to use military force against the Lebanese population to encourage it to press its government to stop Hezbollah's attacks and rescue Israel's soldiers?

Lawful attacks are only those where the targets by their "nature, location, purpose or use make an effective contribution to military action" and whose total or partial destruction, capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling at the time, offers "a definite military advantage." As noted, attacks directed at civilian morale do not meet this test since civilians, by definition, are not contributing to military action. Indeed, attacks on civilian morale are inimical to the very purpose of international humanitarian law of protecting civilians. Military attacks on civilian morale undoubtedly can exert pressure on a government to pursue a particular course of action, but under international humanitarian law that is an inappropriate use of military force. Indeed, the logic of attacking civilian morale opens the door to deliberately attacking civilians and civilian objects themselves -- in short, to terrorism. In addition, international humanitarian law explicitly prohibits attacks of which the primary purpose is to intimidate or instill terror in the civilian population.

International humanitarian law would not prohibit attacks on Lebanese government military forces as a way of pressing the government to rein in Hezbollah, but in making that point, Human Rights Watch takes no position on whether the Lebanese government is capable of reining in Hezbollah or whether it would be an appropriate use of force under jus ad bellum standards to target the Lebanese government.

Is Israel entitled to bomb the Hezbollah leader's house and office?

International law allows the targeting of military commanders in the course of armed conflict, provided that such attacks otherwise comply with the laws that protect civilians. Normally, political leaders, as civilians, would not be legitimate targets of attack. The only exception to this rule is if their role, as commander of troops, or their direct participation in military hostilities renders them effectively combatants. Civilians lose their protected status when they are engaged in hostilities.

According to the International Committee of the Red Cross, direct participation in hostilities means "acts of war which by their nature and purpose are likely to cause actual harm to the personnel and equipment of enemy armed forces" and includes acts of defense. Thus, Hezbollah political leaders who are effectively commanding belligerent forces would be legitimate targets. This conclusion does not apply to all Hezbollah leaders and in particular to those who could not be said to hold such command responsibilities or to be directly participating in hostilities.

In principle, it is permitted to target the location where a combatant resides or works. However, as with any attack on an otherwise legitimate military target, the attacking force must refrain from attack if it would disproportionately harm the civilian population or be launched in a way that fails to discriminate between combatants and civilians.

Can Israel attack neighborhoods that house Hezbollah leaders or offices? And what are Hezbollah's obligations regarding the use of civilian areas for military activities?

Where the targeting of a combatant takes place in an urban area, all parties must be aware of their obligations to protect the civilian population, as the bombing of urban areas significantly increases the risks to the civilian population. International humanitarian law obliges all belligerents to avoid harm to civilians or civilian objects.

The defending party -- in the case of Beirut, Hezbollah -- must take all necessary precautions to protect civilians against the dangers resulting from armed hostilities, and must never use the presence of civilians to shield themselves from attack. That requires positioning its military assets, troops, and commanders as much as possible outside of populated areas. The use of human shields is a war crime.

In calculating the legality of an attack on premises where a Hezbollah combatant is present, Israel must take the risk to civilians into account. It is not relieved from this obligation on the grounds that it considers Hezbollah responsible for having located legitimate military targets within or near populated areas or that Hezbollah may be using the civilian population as a shield. Even in situations of Hezbollah's illegal location of military targets, or shielding, Israel must refrain from launching any attack that may be expected to cause excessive civilian loss in comparison to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated. That is, a violation by Hezbollah in this regard does not justify Israeli forces ignoring the civilian consequences of a planned attack. The intentional launch of an attack in an area without regard to the civilian consequences or in the knowledge that the harm to civilians would be disproportionately high compared to any definite military benefit to be achieved would be a serious violation of international humanitarian law and a war crime.

In any event, the presence of a Hezbollah commander or military facility in a populated area never justifies attacking the area as such rather than the particular military target. It is a prohibited indiscriminate attack, and a war crime, to treat an entire area as a military target instead of attacking the particular military facilities or personnel within that area.

Can Israel attack Hezbollah radio and television stations?

Military attacks on broadcast facilities used for military communications are legitimate under international humanitarian law, but such attacks on civilian television or radio stations are prohibited if they are designed primarily to undermine civilian morale or to psychologically harass the civilian population. Civilian television and radio stations are legitimate targets only if they meet the criteria for a legitimate military objective, that is, if they are used in a way that makes an "effective contribution to military action" and their destruction in the circumstances ruling at the time offers "a definite military advantage." Specifically, Hezbollah-operated civilian broadcast facilities could become military targets if, for example, they are used to send military messages or otherwise concretely to advance Hezbollah's armed campaign against Israel. However, civilian broadcasting facilities are not rendered legitimate military targets simply because they spout pro-Hezbollah or anti-Israel propaganda. For the same reason that it is unlawful to attack civilian morale, it is unlawful to attack facilities that merely shape civilian opinion; neither directly contributes to military operations. That Lebanese civilian opinion might influence how the Lebanese government responds to Hezbollah is not a sufficiently direct contribution to military action to render the media used to influence that opinion a legitimate military target. Rather, broadcasts should be met with competing broadcasts, propaganda with propaganda.

Should stations become legitimate military objectives because of their use to transmit military communications, the principle of proportionality in attack must still be respected. This means that Israeli military planners and commanders should verify at all times that the risks to the civilian population in undertaking any such attack do not outweigh the anticipated military benefit. Special precautions should be taken in relation to buildings located in urban areas. Advance warning of an attack must be given whenever possible.

The IDF have dropped leaflets in parts of Lebanon warning residents to evacuate -- is this an appropriate precaution?

International humanitarian law requires that if there is any risk to civilians in an attack, an effective warning be given where "circumstances permit." Leaflet drops are one way to provide that warning. However, in some cases the IDF are reported to have dropped leaflets giving residents only two hours to evacuate. It is unclear how long Israel waited after the expiration of this two-hour period to launch an attack in these areas. Whether this length of notice is effective is a matter for factual evaluation from the ground, which Human Rights Watch is not yet in a position to undertake. An assessment will have to take into account the difficulties in movement caused by Israel's bombing of some transportation infrastructure such as bridges. In any event, the giving of such warnings does not absolve the attacking party, in this case Israel, from its obligations not to target civilian objects and not to carry out attacks that fail to discriminate between combatants and civilians, or that would have a disproportionate impact on civilians.

Examples of other precautions that parties should take to minimize civilian casualties include selecting a time of day for attack when the fewest civilians would be expected in the area; attacking a legitimate military target that is mobile when it is away from civilian areas; selecting weaponry and a method of attack that, if it misses its intended target, is least likely to harm nearby civilians; and refraining altogether from an attack even against a legitimate military target if the anticipated civilian harm will be disproportionately high -- that is, "an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated."

Is Israel's blockade of Lebanon legitimate?

Israel has targeted the country's only international airport, imposed a naval blockade, attacked ports, and bombed road links out of the country. Blockades as a tool of war are legitimate under international humanitarian law; however, their imposition is still subject to the principle of military necessity and proportionality.

First, the blockade must not have as its primary purpose to intimidate, harass or starve the civilian population. Such actions are proscribed by international humanitarian law, which prohibits armed forces from deliberately causing the civilian population to suffer hunger, particularly by depriving it of its sources of food or supplies.

Second, insofar as Israel attempts to justify the blockade on the grounds of restricting the re-supply of the Hezbollah military, that legitimate purpose must be weighed against the costs to the civilian population. Those costs can also shift over time, as shortages of necessities intensify. Even if a blockade were assumed lawful at the outset, it could become unlawful if mounting civilian costs became too high and outweighed the direct military advantage. In those circumstances -- for example, if food or medical supplies ran low -- Israel would be obliged to permit free passage of material that is essential for civilians and to protect humanitarian personnel delivering those supplies.

HRW
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
18 Jul 2006
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7828123714384920696
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
20 Jul 2006
This is supposed to be "independent media". If I want to read about the poor, picked-on Jewish Zionists, and their 2-10 captured soldiers, I can read Reuters, CNN, or any of the other 90% of TM (traditional media) that almost always report on Israeli "losses", only.

Headlines on Yahoo-Reuters just ten minutes ago, are case-in-point. ”Two Israeli soldiers killed in Lebanon fighting". Two (compared to how many innocents Israel has dismembered, burned, or starved?). Top of the headlines, this evening. However, on this forum, I am seeing the hard truth and reality being reported, as detailed on sites like http://www.arab-american.net, a site I wasn't even aware of until now.

I find it highly suspect, that some supporters of Israel's violence and aggression cannot seem to stand it when reports of Muslim losses are published or discussed. Making every attempt to scream louder, to distract and diverge, and to make completely invalid comparisons. It's almost as if one Jewish life is worth 100,000 Muslim lives. You say, "Israel deliberately targeted power and water plants, and have deliberately put 1.5 million Palestinians in life-or-death situations". The Israeli Zionist answer? "You captured three of our armed soldiers, that were supposed to be shooting your rock-throwing children".

Another good example of emotional grandstanding - someone posts notice of a protest against Israel's slaughter of Islamic women and children with U.S.-paid-for bombs, and Gehrig's (apparently immediate) response is to post pictures of Islamic military formations. Brilliant dispute of Israel's genocide and apartheid.

I am absolutely sick of hearing about poor, poor Israel, and how they've never done anything but bend over backward to satisfy the Palestinians. B*llsh*t! This is an out-and-out lie. They've done everything they could get away with, to simply scr*w the Palestinians, including taking land at every opportunity, that was never "theirs" to begin with. They're building a mega-million dollar apartheid wall, at U.S. taxpayers expense... You know where Israeli Zionists and their supporters do expend a lot of energy? In spreading the same lies, distortions, and distractions to paint themselves the victim. It's a war of deceit and persuasion and organized propaganda, in order to convince the majority that Israel isn't the aggressor and the exploiter.

I'm sure I'm hardly the first person to realize this, but Gehrig's attempt to cover the truth of the situation with emotional grandstanding set me off. And it would appear he lives on this forum, spoiling for any and every opportunity to defend the murderous policies and actions of Israel. Pictures of Islamic armies don't negate the hundreds of thousands of innocent Muslim lives Israel has either snuffed out, or tried to extinguish.
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
20 Jul 2006
And about Gaza. Israel gave up Gaza, mostly as a pure ploy. They still control the borders of it (with an iron, and often manipulative fist), they still control the water and power. And Israel still controls nearly every aspect of every Palestinians' life living in Palestine-Israel. In every place outside of Gaza. So I also get tired of hearing, "well, we gave the Palestinians Gaza, it's unfair of them to want more, what more can we do?...". This is part of the campaign of deceit coming out of Israel, and pridefully supported by some U.S. Jewish Zionists.
to answer your question
Current rating: 0
20 Jul 2006
Hi, Ăľ. Long time, no see.

To answer your question about why I'm here so much, it's because I'm an editor on this site, and I check it several times a day for spam. I figure I dredge out about two to three dozen robo-spams a day -- ads for purple pills, online casinos, and (today, a first!) for foot-fetish porn-cam sites. On a bad day, it can be 500, though that hasn't happened in the last year or so.

And sometimes I see someone has posted something I want to respond to.

And do you know what? There are some posts in this thread I disagree with strenuously. Theoretically I could make them go away and nobody would be the wiser. I don't. Why? Because Indymedia isn't about simply trying to replace one thought-orthodoxy with another thought-orthodoxy. It's about having many voices.

I _have_, however, hidden a post going off on "Muslim dogs," because racism is not accepted here.

@%<
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
20 Jul 2006
"To answer your question about why I'm here so much, it's because I'm an editor on this site, and I check it several times a day for spam. I figure I dredge out about two to three dozen robo-spams a day -- ads for purple pills, online casinos, and (today, a first!) for foot-fetish porn-cam sites. On a bad day, it can be 500, though that hasn't happened in the last year or so."

And as always, very much appreciated. Surely there's a better way to filter out the noise without constant manual cleaning. Something like pre-approved "trusted posters" or community ranking and display thresholds, ala Slashdot (?).

You could also institute a "human filter" feature for the posting box, to prevent so-called robo-spam, just like Yahoo does to prevent robo-sign-up's for email. Many, many sites now use that feature, and surely www.UCIMC isn't the only IMC with robo-posting problems.

Regardless, you can't claim you aren't a very vocal supporter of Israel, and Israel's aggressive and often racist behavior toward its Muslim inhabitants and neighbors.

I completely understand "self defense". I completely understand what the word "victim" means. I don't believe those words apply to Israel very often, if ever.

And I get so, so tired of seeing emotional attempts made to demonize Muslims (like your insta-posted goose-stepping Muslim army picture), and simply ignore how Israel's been acting toward Muslims, for decades. And yes, I understand it’s likely a picture of Hamas or Hezbollah, specifically.

Shall I start responding to your posts in defense of Israel, with pictures of legless and headless Palestinian children, maimed and murdered by U.S.-bought Israeli bombs? How â€bout the current pic’ of Israeli girls scribbling “with love” on the shells that are about to be used to kill innoncent Lebonese? Is that the kind of debate or discussion you want to have? It would certainly seem that that’s how you want things to play out here.

Were I the editor, I would've considered your Islamic army picture "rebuttal" inflammatory, antagonistic, and borderline trolling, and might have deleted it. But then, only you, have the power to allow certain points of view to be seen, and to silence others. That’s a trade-off we’ll have to live with, but how do I know you haven’t deleted a perfectly rational argument with supporting sources, that details the number of Palestinian’s being made to suffer, or killed?

I feel you and the other editors have a thankless job, and I’m glad to hear you’ve established a routine to scrub the spam and obvious troll bait from view, but… what about simply moving the questionable stuff to a “hidden” area? Heck, move the spam too, and you’d gain a new appreciation from your readers with regard to how much dirty work must be accomplished around here.

Gehrig, I’ve read your stuff around the UC/IMC forums for a few years now. I don’t think it’s only my perception, to claim that you have an obvious, shameless pro-Israel bias. A “Zionist”, as some hothead editor on a west coast IMC claimed? I don’t know. Don’t care. But what I do care about is knowing that the point of view not being covered by TM, that is, the point of view that holds that the Palestinians are by far the greater victims of Israel’s racist military policies.. is getting out and heard. And to see you fire back with loaded, massed (Muslim) army pictures to what was only a notice for a protest, and then to find out that you are deciding which sides of the argument on this deadly serious issue are to be heard….


To paraphrase badly, “there’s power in the press, as long as you own the press.”. I am less than pleased to find out you are policing these kinds of topics, and am worried that what is supposed to be a very “open” forum, is no longer.
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
20 Jul 2006
https://card.wordpress.com/2006/07/19/shocking-images-of-gifts-from-israeli-children-the-indoctrination-of-israeli-children/
Re: Gifts from children
Current rating: 0
20 Jul 2006
https://card.wordpress.com/2006/07/19/shocking-images-of-gifts-from-israeli-children-the-indoctrination-of-israeli-children/

I guess this discussion wouldn't be complete without the staged photos of Israeli children mixed in with some shots of unidentified dead children. Here's a link to the explanation.

http://www.sandmonkey.org/2006/07/18/the-fucked-up-pictures-explained/
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
20 Jul 2006
Speaking of moving war images of late, I read a claim somewhere today that the story (and pictures) of a Palestinian or Lebanese family being shelled on the beach, was a fake. A set-up. The picture is heart wrenching, as most of the girl's family was slaughtered before her very eyes, while hanging out at the beach. The primary picture shows her wailing at the feet of her dead family, in the sand.

The supposed debunking claims that the corpses were brought in and staged, and/or that it's the Muslims fault because they launch shells from within civilian neighborhoods, to use the populace as a human shield.

Now, I already know for a fact that Israel engages in some horrific human rights abuses, both in everyday treatment of Palestinians and in military offensives. I also know that it's not like the Muslim forces have nice, tidy "front lines" of military action from which to engage in military actions.

Both sides are fighting in dense urban areas. Hitting houses, in both directions, is unavoidable.

Just thought I throw that tidbit out; just saw it today somewhere, and thought it was only fair. Don't know if the Israeli claims of "fake photo!" are valid.
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
20 Jul 2006
FWIW, I also have a bias. Of determined sympathy toward the oppressed and brutalized. With all sincerity, that is the fundamental motivation in my interest in the Israel-Palestine conflict. Similar reasons I feel passionately about eliminating any/all vestiges of Chief Illiniwek as the racist “mascot” for the Uni.

In the case of Palestine-Israel, after many years of hearing only one side of the story (Israel's), along with the Internet around 1995 I gained an opportunity to hear both sides of the story.

And it was obvious that not only had I been hearing only one side of the story, but that side was grossly distorted and exaggerated, not only to place singular blame, but to maintain perpetual sympathy for victimhood.

Come to find out, not only was I completely missing half the picture, but the half I was getting was deliberately deceitful. IMO. Organized propaganda, might be a fitting description.

So I find it somewhat humorous now, to hear a growing swell of complaint from certain folks, that “the pictures were set-up, the Palestinians are fakers, don’t give them any sympathy, they don’t deserve it!”

What’s that saying by a famous Israeli, that “if you fight terrorists for too long, you’ll become a terrorist yourself” ? So I say if you milk the “Oh pity us, we’re always the victim” scam for too long, it’s only fair that your opponents can use the exact same ploy. And especially fair if it’s the hard, cold truth, that nobody heard, for many years.
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
20 Jul 2006
So I find it somewhat humorous now, to hear a growing swell of complaint from certain folks, that “the pictures were set-up, the Palestinians are fakers, don’t give them any sympathy, they don’t deserve it!”

Are you saying that you don't understand what's wrong with staging "news" photos?
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
20 Jul 2006
Nobody's proved the "signed shells" photo is a set-up. Paragraphs of unconfirmable back-peddling, after the photo was seen by many, does not convince me.

And it's a fact, that Israeli girls, knowing fully well what those weapons were about to be used for, signed messages on them, messages meant to address the inhabitants of the target cities. I don't care if the girls were bored, or poor, or blonde.

They knew what they were writing, what it meant, and that their picture was being taken.

We can't go an hour without an image of a masked Palestinian soldier, actively engaged in violence, being thrust in our faces. But allow a tiny bit of reality to get out unfiltered, about how truly hateful and murderous many Israeli Jews feel toward Muslims, and some folks start crying bloody murder. No pun intended.
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
20 Jul 2006
Just wondering why you saw fit to delete my corrected post. Was it too pro Israeli?

*sigh* .... It's still up online, but it's not displaying in the top section because you didn't check the "local interest" box, and it was submitted as a separate article rather than as a followup to this one.
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
20 Jul 2006
And it's a fact, that Israeli girls, knowing fully well what those weapons were about to be used for, signed messages on them, messages meant to address the inhabitants of the target cities. I don't care if the girls were bored, or poor, or blonde.

They knew what they were writing, what it meant, and that their picture was being taken.


Apparently, the writing on the rockets was addressed to Nasrallah, not Arab children. Just a wee bit of difference there.

We can't go an hour without an image of a masked Palestinian soldier, actively engaged in violence, being thrust in our faces. But allow a tiny bit of reality to get out unfiltered, about how truly hateful and murderous many Israeli Jews feel toward Muslims, and some folks start crying bloody murder. No pun intended.

So basically, since the Palestinians and Lebanese have been treated badly by Israel, the IMC should allow propaganda to go unchallenged?
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
21 Jul 2006
by wayward
...
So basically, since the Palestinians and Lebanese have been treated badly by Israel, the IMC should allow propaganda to go unchallenged?



Now it's "propaganda", is it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hassan_Nasrallah

So the message said, "to my enemy!". Written by an eleven year old Israeli girl. Which part about Israeli girls writing messages to their enemies on shells that will soon murder innocent Lebanese, is fake this time?

The impact of this picture, remains. Whether the girls were poor, bored, or wrote "Satan, Nasrallah, Lebanese grandparents, children, and hospitals..", or whatever.

Don't tell me, the written report said "felt tip marker" and upon microscopic forensic examination of the photo, it was determined to actually be nothing more than a wax crayon.

Fake! Propaganda! No sympathy for the Muslims, Israel is actually the victim (again!) in this insidious campaign of deceit!
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
21 Jul 2006
Just stumbled across this site, minutes ago. This information source didn't even exist ten years ago:

http://www.btselem.org/English/index.asp

Pages and pages of the hard, cold truth of just exactly how Israel has been treating the Palestinians in the Occupied Territories. For a long time.
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
21 Jul 2006
Now it's "propaganda", is it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hassan_Nasrallah

So the message said, "to my enemy!". Written by an eleven year old Israeli girl. Which part about Israeli girls writing messages to their enemies on shells that will soon murder innocent Lebanese, is fake this time?


If you look really closely at Nasrallah's wikipedia entry, you might notice that he does not appear to be a child. Whether he's an "innocent Lebanese" is certainly open to debate. So claiming that the Israeli children were excited about killing Lebanese children is pretty sleazy.

As it happens, I've taken news photos for Indy Media, and some of them have been printed in papers. I've never pulled a stunt like that photographer did, and I hope I never do.
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
21 Jul 2006
OK Wayward, so then it'd be just fine with you if Lebanese schoolgirls wrote "to Sharon/Olmert" on their shells? You're splitting hairs, in an incredibly weak attempt to defend the messages of hate and murder that "peace loving" Jewish schoolgirls wrote on shells about to be used to kill people. Other human beings. Innocent human beings. You're trying to claim that the glee for murder the Jewish schoolchildren were expressing, proudly for the camera, is justified because the specific target mentioned is a deserving target (in your opinion) of being murdered.

The picture speaks for itself, and says a lot. I don't care if the messages scrawled read, "have a nice day, from Israel with love!" The specific target mentioned doesn't justify the behavior or attitude pictured.

You're determined to "defend" the girls, because that single picture instantly points out, to any human being with working eyesight, that many/most Israeli Jews are just as bloodthirsty and murderous as they're constantly accusing their Muslim neighbors of being. If not more so - Israel certainly has a more formidable military machine. They should, U.S. citizens s either designed, manufactured, or at least paid for, a large portion of it.

People aren't buying the "poor, picked-on Israel" shtick any more. The whole world knows better, much better, in 2006. We can all get news and reports from many sources now, not just the profit-driven mass media organizations that are beholden to (and in bed with) the powers-that-be, to tell only the “approved” story.

And I also couldn't care less that you’ve “taken news photos for Indy Media, and some of them have been printed in papers”. Your claim of taking a higher moral road with regard to your own picture-taking, is pointless to your gossamer "argument" here.
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
21 Jul 2006
Matt -- here's what I found unacceptable: "the peace loving Muslims, of which there are three or four"

Hamas and Hizbollah aren't peace-loving, but claiming that there are only three or four Muslims in the area who love peace is unsupportably racist.

@%<
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
21 Jul 2006
þ: I am less than pleased to find out you are policing these kinds of topics, and am worried that what is supposed to be a very “open” forum, is no longer.

Openness means including posts that I disagree with, sometimes quite strongly, and posts that you disagree with. I do not hide posts for their political content, even when they're from 9/11-was-an-inside-job nutbars. I do hide posts for racism, or for long-term patterns of obvious trolling. And I delete posts that offer to enlarge my penis, sell me Ukrainian auto insurance, or show me Brittany Spears naked.

How can you trust me? If you've had enough beers with me, you know that I'm not a censor. You'd know that I'm opinionated and yakkity, but that I also know that the IMC network was designed for dialectical multiplicity of thought and stance. (I thought, incidentally, that we'd had enough beers, but maybe not.) Let me just note that I'm simultaneously being accused in this thread of being both pro-Israel and anti-Israel.

Since you're referred several times to my posting those Hizbollah pictures, let me explain exactly why I did, and why I captioned them as I do. It was a specific response to the boilerplate cut-and-paste-from-ANSWER text of the announcement. ANSWER believes that progressives should support Hamas and Hizbollah. I believe you'd have to be a damned fool to mistake Hizbollah for a progressive organization, and that pouring ANSWER's rhetorical sauce over them doesn't change that. So I captioned them "The Progressives of Hezbollah."

Am I an Israel supporter? No doubt. Not a Likudnik, not under any illusions that Israel is perfect; Israel, like the US, has entirely too much institutionalized racism. If I saw my role here as merely that of a pro-Israel rah-rah propagandist, I could really open the floodgates. I have set myself a much smaller -- but still, I think, important -- goal, which is to remind UCIMC readers that there's more to this conflict than the ANSWER-style "Four legs good, two legs bad."

@%<
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
21 Jul 2006
And let me specifically add that I didn't post the pictures to say, Look, folks, it's The Muslim Enemy. I posted them to show Hizbollah for what it is: a well-armed, well-trained, well-financed proxy arm of Iran and Syria, with a long-stated intent to end the state of Israel and create a fundamentalist Islamist state in its place. When Hassan Nasrallah calls Jews "a cancer," he's not speaking for either the Palestinians or the Muslims. But he is speaking for Hizbollah. He says these things, not because he's Muslim, not because he's defending the Palestinian honor, but because he's a theocratic fascist. These guys are at about zero on the Kumbaya scale, but that's the last thing ANSWER wants you to know.

@%
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
21 Jul 2006
OK Wayward, so then it'd be just fine with you if Lebanese schoolgirls wrote "to Sharon/Olmert" on their shells? You're splitting hairs, in an incredibly weak attempt to defend the messages of hate and murder that "peace loving" Jewish schoolgirls wrote on shells about to be used to kill people. Other human beings. Innocent human beings. You're trying to claim that the glee for murder the Jewish schoolchildren were expressing, proudly for the camera, is justified because the specific target mentioned is a deserving target (in your opinion) of being murdered.

The picture speaks for itself, and says a lot. I don't care if the messages scrawled read, "have a nice day, from Israel with love!" The specific target mentioned doesn't justify the behavior or attitude pictured.

You're determined to "defend" the girls, because that single picture instantly points out, to any human being with working eyesight, that many/most Israeli Jews are just as bloodthirsty and murderous as they're constantly accusing their Muslim neighbors of being. If not more so - Israel certainly has a more formidable military machine. They should, U.S. citizens s either designed, manufactured, or at least paid for, a large portion of it.

People aren't buying the "poor, picked-on Israel" shtick any more. The whole world knows better, much better, in 2006. We can all get news and reports from many sources now, not just the profit-driven mass media organizations that are beholden to (and in bed with) the powers-that-be, to tell only the “approved” story.

And I also couldn't care less that you’ve “taken news photos for Indy Media, and some of them have been printed in papers”. Your claim of taking a higher moral road with regard to your own picture-taking, is pointless to your gossamer "argument" here.


How nice it would be if you would stop trying to put words in my mouth. I'm not "defending" anyone. Rather, I'm pointing out that the the claim that Israeli children are eager to kill Lebanese children was misleading.

If the other side pulled a similar stunt - getting Lebanese schoolgirls to sign shells "to Sharon/Olmert" and then claimed that they were excited about killing Israeli children, that would be just as sleazy. As it happens, I think that this is all about journalistic ethics, and the "higher moral road" is rather important to me.
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
21 Jul 2006
It should be of concern to IMC members that a racist like Gehrig has been given the job of monitoring racism. He is simply incapable of acknowledging the victimization of Palestinians, Arabs, and Muslims by Israel and the U.S., a condition that can only exist with a failure to acknowledge "they" are as human as "us." Our understanding of racism has progressed to the point where it is clear that defending "victims" and wearing the mantle of anti-racism ( and especially anti-semitism) is the most acceptable and "civilized" way to express one's contempt for entire group of people, while avoiding confronting the difficult facts. A picture is not worth a thousand words, but it is a means of avoiding many thousands of what Israelis like to call "facts on the ground." That includes the violent facts of collective punishment (violations of the Geneva Convention), which overwhelm the posturing of resistance movements like Hamas and Hezbollah, who by the way legitimately captured soldiers in response to ongoing Israeli depredations, unreported in the U.S. media. By the way, one could find similar pictures of the Jabotinskyite Zionist "revisionsts", who much admired Mussolini, and of course loved marching in brown-shirt formation. And also by the way, yesterday saw many prominent Israelis celebrating the anniversary of the bombing of the King David Hotel in 1946, a terrorist act by Menachem Begin that killed (over 90) not only British and Arabs, but Jews, all to the end result that we see as Israel rains collective punishment on Gaza and Lebanon, to the rationalizing non sequiturs of the Gehrigs of the world.
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
21 Jul 2006
It should be of concern to IMC members that a racist like Gehrig has been given the job of monitoring racism.

"Monitoring racism?" That's an interesting description of a job that mostly consists of removing spambot posts from the board. We also remove hate speech and blatant troll posts to keep the board usable. As it happens, Gehrig was the editor who removed a recent post disparaging Muslims. So do you have any hard evidence that Gehrig's a racist, other than the fact that he doesn't agree with all your opinions?
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
21 Jul 2006
In break with U.S., Iraqi leader assails Israel
By Edward Wong and Michael Slackman The New York Times
THURSDAY, JULY 20, 2006

BAGHDAD, Iraq Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki of Iraq on Wednesday forcefully denounced the Israeli attacks on Lebanon, marking a sharp break with President George W. Bush's position and highlighting the growing power of a Shiite Muslim identity across the Middle East.

"The Israeli attacks and airstrikes are completely destroying Lebanon's infrastructure," Maliki said at an afternoon news conference inside the fortified Green Zone, which houses the American embassy and the seat of the Iraqi government. "I condemn these aggressions and call on the Arab League foreign ministers' meeting in Cairo to take quick action to stop these aggressions. We call on the world to take quick stands to stop the Israeli aggression."

The American Embassy did not answer a reporter's request for a response.

The comments by Maliki, a Shiite Arab whose party has close ties to Iran, were noticeably stronger than those made by Sunni Arab governments in recent days. Those governments have refused to take an unequivocal stand on Lebanon, reflecting their concern about the growing influence of Iran, which has a Shiite majority and has been accused by Israel of providing weapons to Hezbollah, the Lebanese Shiite militant group.

The ambivalence of those governments has angered many Sunni Arabs in those countries, despite the centuries of enmity between the Sunni and Shiite branches of Islam.

Like many other people around the region, Ahmed Mekky, 40, an Egyptian lawyer and a Sunni Arab, says he supports Hezbollah because it is doing what he said the Arab leadership has been frightened to do for too long - standing up to Israel and the United States. "We are praying that God would make Hezbollah victorious," Mekky said as he stood beside a newspaper kiosk in downtown Cairo on Wednesday. "All the Arab governments are asleep."

Perhaps more so than at any time since Iraq's occupation of Kuwait in 1990, the bloodletting between Hezbollah and Israel has highlighted the huge divide among many Arab countries, and between many people and their leaders.

Sunni Arab leaders in Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and other Persian Gulf Countries have complained that since the rise of a Shiite majority governing Iraq, and with Iran pressing ahead with its nuclear program, Tehran stands to emerge as the regional power. Unlike the other countries, Iran has only a tiny minority of Arabs, with Persians making up a slight majority. (Azeris are the second-largest ethnic group there.)

Some Sunni leaders see in Hezbollah a dangerous beachhead for Iranian influence in the region. And they have criticized Hezbollah for staging the raid into Israel and capture of two Israeli soldiers last week that prompted Israel's attack on Lebanon.

But the longer the conflict drags on, the more these leaders are finding their credibility called into question. The longer satellite television shows images of civilians killed and maimed by Israeli bombs, the more these leaders face hostility from their own people. The longer Hezbollah fires rockets into Israeli cities and towns, killing and wounding Israelis, the longer these leaders have to face questions about why they do not take similar action.

"People know that the Arab governments are impotent and are always looking for excuses to justify their failure to do anything," said Adnan Abu-Odeh, a former adviser to the late King Hussein of Jordan. "In fact, historically, this episode is another example of how Israel embarrasses the moderate regimes in the region."

Prime Minister Maliki's comments in Baghdad came in response to a reporter's question about whether the Iraqi government had plans to evacuate Iraqis from Lebanon. After lashing out at Israel, Maliki said he had asked the Iraqi embassy in Beirut to help evacuate Iraqis stranded by the Israeli campaign.

His stance is noteworthy because it is a significant split with American policy toward Israel. It has been the Americans' hope that Iraq would become Bush's staunchest ally among Arab nations. The Americans arranged a series of elections that ended up putting Shiite parties in power, and the White House helped boost Maliki by pushing last spring for the ouster of the prime minister at the time, Ibrahim al-Jaafari. Maliki relies on the presence of 134,000 American troops in Iraq to stave off the insurgency led by Sunni Arabs, who ruled over the majority Shiite Arabs for decades.

The resentment of the Iraqi government toward Israel calls into question one of the rationales among some conservatives for the American invasion of Iraq - that an American-backed democratic state here would inevitably become an ally of Israel and, by doing so, catalyze a change of attitude across the rest of the Arab world.

A growing number of Iraqi officials have stepped forward in recent days to condemn Israel. On Sunday, in a rare show of unity, the 275-member Parliament issued a statement calling the Israeli strikes an act of "criminal aggression." The militant Shiite cleric Moktada al-Sadr, whose followers play a crucial role in the government, said last Friday that Iraqis would not "sit by with folded hands" while the violence in Lebanon raged. Sadr commands a powerful militia, the Mahdi Army.
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
21 Jul 2006
David Green: "a racist like Gehrig"

* rolling eyes *

Now would be a really terrific time for you to retract that stupid and baseless remark.

@%<
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
22 Jul 2006
US rushes precision-guided bombs to Israel: NYTs

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060722/ts_nm/mideast_bush_weapons_dc

Who's War On Terr'a® is this again? Oh yeah, it's only that treacherous, traitorous NYTs, so we can just assume this news is nothing more than a leak meant as a partisan, political ploy.

Lets see, Bush-RiceCo. can't even be bothered to say "stop", and now we're sending fresh bombs to murder Muslims and/or level much/most of Lebanon.

Yeah buddy, the Muslim world, which is a pretty large segment of the world's population, is just loving the morally superior U.S. today, aren't they?

F*cking self-righteous religious a-holes are going to be the death of us all. Unless we all refuse to kill each other at our "leaders" bidding. Because someone's Sky-wizard told them they were justified.

Lets not forget for a second, that King George believes with all his dry-drunk ability, that we have to have WorldWar III before he can go sit beside the Sky-wizard's son.

Get out the Vote! http://headcount.org/ Midterms Matter! This might be one of the last chances we have to change the (current) course of humanity. Seriously.

Anybody else notice the curious timing here? People been saying to expect another grand distraction right before the midterms. Well, whaddya know, our "elected" leaders are now throwing gasoline on the fire. The fire in the middle-east most likely to become the largest on our tiny planet.
The captured Israeli soldiers were in Lebanon when they were captured
Current rating: 0
23 Jul 2006
Hezbollah Captures 2 Israeli Soldiers
Wednesday July 12, 2006 6:28am


BEIRUT, Lebanon (AP) - The militant group Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers during clashes Wednesday across the border in southern Lebanon, prompting a swift reaction from Israel, which sent ground forces into its neighbor to search for them. The forces were trying to keep the soldiers' captors from moving them deeper into Lebanon, Israeli government officials said on condition of anonymity.

The Israeli military would not confirm the report.

Earlier, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert called an emergency Cabinet meeting and said Lebanese guerrillas would pay a "heavy price" for Wednesday's attacks.

"These are difficult days for the state of Israel and its citizens," Olmert said. "There are people ... who are trying to test our resolve. They will fail and they will pay a heavy price for their actions."

The new captures came as Israel continued its two-week-old offensive in the Gaza Strip to try to win the release of another Israeli soldier who was captured by Hamas-linked Palestinian militants during a raid across the Israel-Gaza border last month.

Osama Hamdan, a Hamas spokesman in Lebanon, said Hezbollah's seizure of the two soldiers Wednesday strengthens Hamas' position, and demanded Israel free all Arab prisoners to secure their release.

"We have proven to this enemy (Israel) that the one option is the release of Palestinian, Lebanese and Arab captives. All captives, without exception," Hamdan told Al-Jazeera television.

"What happened has strengthened the issue of the captives, and the enemy will submit to our choice, which is the exchange of the captives in return for the release of the soldiers," he said.

The comments appeared to reflect a toughening of Hamas' stance in the abduction of Israeli Cpl. Gilad Shalit in the cross-border raid outside Gaza. Previously, Hamas had demanded the freeing of some Palestinian prisoners in return for Shalit's release.

Hamdan did not say whether Hamas had consulted with Hezbollah over Wednesday's seizure of the two soldiers at Israel's northern border with Lebanon. But he said there may be subsequent "coordination and an understanding" between the two groups.
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
23 Jul 2006
"The captured Israeli soldiers were in Lebanon when they were captured"

Learn to read. Hizbollah was firing across the border from southern Lebanon, and then crossed the border to capture the Israels.

Don't believe me? Check out the Routers account. They weren't so sloppy with their wording.

Or else check out the BBC account. Same deal.

@%<
Routers?
Current rating: 0
24 Jul 2006
Show us.
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
24 Jul 2006
Matt's last comment illustrates what damned near all discussion of the Middle East, at least as practiced here in the USA, really comes down to:

Pick a side on the basis of emotional attachment. Then define whatever your side does as automatically right and proper, while whatever "their" side does is automatically criminal. Remeber that the moral dimension of human-inflicted human suffering is determined only by the identities of the victim and the victimizer. Cling to that position even though it lead you, as Matt is apparently at the point of doing, to an eliminationist position against "them".

This is what happens when a species has brains adapted to a hunter-gatherer existence in groups small enough that everyone in it has biological kinship ties, but has weapons adapted to extermination at the species level.

Barring a miraculous general outbreak of good sense- or some genius finally inventing the Valium Bomb- I can't envisage any outcome but more repetitions of putting a Band-Aid on the problem and then being surprised when the wound becomes gangrenous.
On July 12, 2006, Israeli soldiers entered the Lebanon border and were captured
Current rating: 0
26 Jul 2006
Cancer of misinformation

from Pipistro - 24.07.2006 22:04

A little nation and its people have been tied to misinformation

For decades a coward silence has been the endemic cancer penetrating almost the whole western media when talking about the misdemeanours of the Israeli establishment. Therefore Israel has been turned into a little nation and its people has been tied to misinformation and egoism. Lebanese strike is the last show. On July 12, 2006, Israeli soldiers entered the Lebanon border and were captured in the Lebanese town of Ayta ash-Shab by Hezbollah militias that keep control of that land in Southern Lebanon (Bahrain News, Asia Times). Israel deliberately lies or let the world and the Westerners understand that the soldiers have been kidnapped in Israeli owned land. That’s it, then it’s hell. IDF bombs Lebanon while in Europe some say they are indignate (but they keep silent) and some talk of self defense (and they had better keep silent). After having believed as true, for years, world spread Israeli propaganda, such as the Western world trusted Barak’s unabashed lies (making impossible for his people and neighbours to reach a deal with Syria and killing Camp David and Taba talks), Western nations let US backed Israel blackmail the Middle East with another humanitarian catastrophe. Hundreds of dead and wounded, hundreds of thousands refugees must weigh over the coward Europe’s conscience, as there is no chance they weighed over the arrogance of the Israeli Military and Government or the dishonest US establishment. But something is moving. Protectors and protegees, in spite of the propaganda that has been spread for decades all over the world by hired information killers, are no longer able to keep people unaware of the facts.

http://beirut.indymedia.org/ar/2006/07/4734.shtml
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
26 Jul 2006
Give it a rest.

Not even Hezbollah says that the two Israeli soldiers were captured inside Lebanon. Are you trying to be more Hezbollah than Hezbollah?

@%<
Kidnapped in Israel or Captured in Lebanon?
Current rating: 0
27 Jul 2006
by Joshua, Frank

Israel’s Invasion Pretext Under Fire

As Lebanon continues to be pounded by Israeli bombs and munitions, the justification for Israel's invasion is treading on very thin ice. It has become general knowledge that it was Hezbollah guerillas that first kidnapped two IDF soldiers inside Israel on July 12, prompting an immediate and violent response from the Israeli government, which insists it is acting in the interest of national defense. Israeli forces have gone on to kill over 370 innocent Lebanese civilians (compared to 34 killed on Israel's side) while displacing hundreds of thousands more. But numerous reports from international and independent media, as well as the Associated Press, raise questions about Israel's official version of the events that sparked the conflict two weeks ago.

The original story, as most media tell it, goes something like this: Hezbollah attacked an Israeli border patrol station, killing six and taking two soldiers hostage. The incident happened on the Lebanese/Israel border in Israeli territory. The alternate version, as explained by several news outlets, tells a bit of a different tale: These sources contend that Israel sent a commando force into southern Lebanon and was subsequently attacked by Hezbollah near the village of Aitaa al-Chaab, well inside Lebanon's southern territory. It was at this point that an Israel tank was struck by Hezbollah fighters, which resulted in the capture of two Israeli soldiers and the death of six.

As the AFP reported, "According to the Lebanese police force, the two Israeli soldiers were captured in Lebanese territory, in the area of Aitaa al-Chaab, near to the border with Israel, where an Israeli unit had penetrated in middle of morning." And the French news site http://www.VoltaireNet.org reiterated the same account on June 18, "In a deliberated way, [Israel] sent a commando in the Lebanese back-country to Aitaa al-Chaab. It was attacked by Hezbollah, taking two prisoners."

The Associated Press departed from the official version as well. "The militant group Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers during clashes Wednesday across the border in southern Lebanon, prompting a swift reaction from Israel, which sent ground forces into its neighbor to look for them," reported Joseph Panossian for AP on July 12. "The forces were trying to keep the soldiers' captors from moving them deeper into Lebanon, Israeli government officials said on condition of anonymity."

And the Hindustan Times on July 12 conveyed a similar account:

"The Lebanese Shi'ite Hezbollah movement announced on Wednesday that its guerrillas have captured two Israeli soldiers in southern Lebanon. 'Implementing our promise to free Arab prisoners in Israeli jails, our strugglers have captured two Israeli soldiers in southern Lebanon,' a statement by Hezbollah said. 'The two soldiers have already been moved to a safe place,' it added. The Lebanese police said that the two soldiers were captured as they 'infiltrated' into the town of Aitaa al-Chaab inside the Lebanese border."

Whether factual or not, these alternative accounts should at the very least raise serious questions as to Israel's motives and rationale for bombarding Lebanon.

MSNBC online first reported that Hezbollah had captured Israeli soldiers "inside" Lebanon, only to change their story hours later after the Israeli government gave an official statement to the contrary.

A report from The National Council of Arab Americans, based in Lebanon, also raised suspicion that Israel's official story did not hold water and noted that Israel had yet to recover the tank that was demolished during the initial attack in question.

"The Israelis so far have not been able to enter Aitaa al-Chaab to recover the tank that was exploded by Hezbollah and the bodies of the soldiers that were killed in the original operation (this is a main indication that the operation did take place on Lebanese soil, not that in my opinion it would ever be an illegitimate operation, but still the media has been saying that it was inside 'Israel' thus an aggression first started by Hezbollah)."

Before independent observers could organize an investigation of the incident, Israel had already mounted a grisly offensive against Lebanese infrastructure and civilians, bombing Beirut's international airport, along with numerous highways and communication portals. Israel didn't need the truth of the matter to play out before it invaded Lebanon. As with the United States' illegitimate invasion of Iraq, Israel just needed the proper media cover to wage a war with no genuine moral impetus.

Joshua Frank is the author of Left Out! How Liberals Helped Reelect George W. Bush and edits http://www.BrickBurner.org


Homepage: http://www.counterpunch.org/frank07262006.html
"Not even Hezbollah says"
Current rating: 0
27 Jul 2006
Quote of the Day:

(snip)

"The Lebanese Shi'ite Hezbollah movement announced on Wednesday that its guerrillas have captured two Israeli soldiers in southern Lebanon.

(snip)
Suicide mission to fill swimming pools
Current rating: 0
27 Jul 2006
Israel had planned the attack on Lebanon for more than a year, and probably longer.

From the Lebanese daily Assafir, on the rounding up of more of the Israeli spy ring in Lebanon, as reported by SANA (my emphasis in red):

“One of the prominent figures in the network confessed  that Israel has put itself on the alert 4 days before arrest of the two Israeli soldiers and provided its inactive spy cells with directives and technologies regarding targeting centers and headquarters of Hizbullah party in all Lebanese territories particularly in the Beirut's southern suburb.”

Israel uses on-the-ground local spotters to determine where to drop its bombs.  The spotters were told to be ready four days before the Israeli soldiers were captured, meaning that Israel had to have known that they would be captured, and when they would be captured.  If they had been captured in a surprise attack by Hezbollah inside Israel, Israel could not possibly have known that they would be seized, or when.

The captured Israeli soldiers were captured inside Lebanon (summarized here; see also here and here and here).  That means the self-defense pretext is a lie, and the concept that Israel has a right to defend itself, spouted by all its apologists, is irrelevant (the Hezbollah missiles were only sent after the Israeli attack was well under way).  In fact, Hezbollah only poses a military threat inside Lebanon defending it from Israel, and is absolutely no military ‘existential’ threat to Israel itself, meaning that all the discussions by the disgusting apologists for war crimes, fine considerations of when you can murder citizens under the pretext of ‘self-defense’, is immoral bullshit.

The only logical conclusion is that the Israeli generals sent a group of Israeli soldiers into Lebanon on a suicide mission, intending that they be killed and/or captured by Hezbollah.  It would not surprise me if they let Hezbollah know the soldiers were coming by broadcasting the information over signals they knew Hezbollah was monitoring.  The soldiers, of course, wouldn’t know what was planned for them, and would have assumed that this was just another of the many illegal Israeli incursions onto Lebanese territory.  In other words, the Israeli generals sent their young conscripts over the Lebanese border with the intention that they be captured or die, all in order to create the excuse for the pre-planned attack on Lebanon.

I’m sure the relatives of the soldiers are proud of them, on the assumption that their sacrifice was made to protect Israel.  I wonder how they’d feel if they realized that their sacrifice was really made in order to fill the swimming pools of the settlers, and that Israel, as a direct result of this foolishness, is actually much less safe.

Here goes the anti-Zionist *wink-wink* forgery mill
Current rating: 0
28 Jul 2006
Hopefully the editors here won't allow such a blatant forgery to remain up for more than 24 hrs. The idiot that posted this pathetic piece of forged tom foolery is both an indybay.org and LA-IMC editor. If you let him join your collective you may as well kiss your IMC goodbye as he destroyes every IMC he lays his poisonous claws on. He forges Zionists and spams day and night and removes virtually every comment that isn't totally anti-Zionist, but does leave up all manner of trash, no matter how it violates the IMC publishing guidelines, if it registers as anti-Zionist.
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Current rating: 0
29 Jul 2006
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Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
29 Jul 2006
Down the Memory Hole
Report, FAIR, 29 July 2006

Lebanese refugees living in the camp of Seida southern Lebanon July 28, 2006. (MaanImages/Payam Borazjani)

Israeli contribution to conflict is forgotten by leading papers

In the wake of the most serious outbreak of Israeli/Arab violence in years, three leading U.S. papers—the Washington Post, New York Times and Los Angeles Times—have each strongly editorialized that Hamas in Gaza and Hezbollah in Lebanon were solely responsible for sparking violence, and that the Israeli military response was predictable and unavoidable. These editorials ignored recent events that indicate a much more complicated situation.

Beginning with the Israeli attack on Gaza, a New York Times editorial (6/29/06) headlined "Hamas Provokes a Fight" declared that "the responsibility for this latest escalation rests squarely with Hamas," and that "an Israeli military response was inevitable." The paper (7/15/06) was similarly sure in its assignment of blame after the fighting spread to Lebanon: "It is important to be clear about not only who is responsible for the latest outbreak, but who stands to gain most from its continued escalation. Both questions have the same answer: Hamas and Hezbollah."

The Washington Post (7/14/06) agreed, writing that "Hezbollah and its backers have instigated the current fighting and should be held responsible for the consequences." The L.A. Times (7/14/06) likewise wrote that "in both cases Israel was provoked." Three days and scores of civilian deaths later, the Times (7/17/06) was even more direct: "Make no mistake about it: Responsibility for the escalating carnage in Lebanon and northern Israel lies with one side...and that is Hezbollah."

As FAIR noted in a recent Action Alert (7/19/06), the portrayal of Israel as the innocent victim in the Gaza conflict is hard to square with the death toll in the months leading up to the current crisis; between September 2005 and June 2006, 144 Palestinians in Gaza were killed by Israeli forces, according to a list compiled by the Israeli human rights group B'tselem; 29 of those killed were children. During the same period, no Israelis were killed as a result of violence from Gaza.

In a July 21 CounterPunch column, Alexander Cockburn highlighted some of the violent incidents that have dropped out of the media’s collective memory:

"Let's go on a brief excursion into pre-history. I’m talking about June 20, 2006, when Israeli aircraft fired at least one missile at a car in an attempted extrajudicial assassination attempt on a road between Jabalya and Gaza City. The missile missed the car. Instead it killed three Palestinian children and wounded 15.

"Back we go again to June 13, 2006. Israeli aircraft fired missiles at a van in another attempted extrajudicial assassination. The successive barrages killed nine innocent Palestinians.

"Now we're really in the dark ages, reaching far, far back to June 9, 2006, when Israel shelled a beach in Beit Lahiya killing eight civilians and injuring 32.

"That's just a brief trip down Memory Lane, and we trip over the bodies of twenty dead and forty-seven wounded, all of them Palestinians, most of them women and children."

On June 24, the day before Hamas' cross-border raid, Israel made an incursion of its own, capturing two Palestinians that it said were members of Hamas (something Hamas denied—L.A. Times, 6/25/06). This incident received far less coverage in U.S. media than the subsequent seizure of the Israeli soldier; the few papers that covered it mostly dismissed it in a one-paragraph brief (e.g., Chicago Tribune, 6/25/06), while the Israeli taken prisoner got front-page headlines all over the world. It's likely that most Gazans don’t share U.S. news outlets' apparent sense that captured Israelis are far more interesting or important than captured Palestinians.

The situation in Lebanon is also more complicated than its portrayal in U.S. media, with the roots of the current crisis extending well before the July 12 capture of two Israeli soldiers by Hezbollah. A major incident fueling the latest cycle of violence was a May 26, 2006 car bombing in Sidon, Lebanon, that killed a senior official of Islamic Jihad, a Palestinian group allied with Hezbollah. Lebanon later arrested a suspect, Mahmoud Rafeh, whom Lebanese authorities claimed had confessed to carrying out the assassination on behalf of Mossad (London Times, 6/17/06).

Israel denied involvement with the bombing, but even some Israelis are skeptical. "If it turns out this operation was effectively carried out by Mossad or another Israeli secret service," wrote Yediot Aharonot, Israel’s top-selling daily (6/16/06; cited in AFP, 6/16/06), "an outsider from the intelligence world should be appointed to know whether it was worth it and whether it lays groups open to risk."

In Lebanon, Israel's culpability was taken as a given. "The Israelis, in hitting Islamic Jihad, knew they would get Hezbollah involved too," Amal Saad-Ghorayeb, a professor at Beirut’s Lebanese American University, told the New York Times (5/29/06). "The Israelis had to be aware that if they assassinated this guy they would get a response."

And, indeed, on May 28, Lebanese militants in Hezbollah-controlled territory fired Katyusha rockets at a military vehicle and a military base inside Israel. Israel responded with airstrikes against Palestinian camps deep inside Lebanon, which in turn were met by Hezbollah rocket and mortar attacks on more Israeli military bases, which prompted further Israeli airstrikes and "a steady artillery barrage at suspected Hezbollah positions" (New York Times, 5/29/06). Gen. Udi Adam, the commander of Israel’s northern forces, boasted that "our response was the harshest and most severe since the withdrawal" of Israeli troops from Lebanon in 2000 (Chicago Tribune, 5/29/06).

This intense fighting was the prelude to the all-out warfare that began on July 12, portrayed in U.S. media as beginning with an attack out of the blue by Hezbollah. While Hezbollah's capture of two Israeli soldiers may have reignited the smoldering conflict, the Israeli air campaign that followed was not a spontaneous reaction to aggression but a well-planned operation that was years in the making.

"Of all of Israel’s wars since 1948, this was the one for which Israel was most prepared," Gerald Steinberg, a political science professor at Israel's Bar-Ilan University, told the San Francisco Chronicle (7/21/05). "By 2004, the military campaign scheduled to last about three weeks that we’re seeing now had already been blocked out and, in the last year or two, it’s been simulated and rehearsed across the board." The Chronicle reported that a "senior Israeli army officer" has been giving PowerPoint presentations for more than a year to "U.S. and other diplomats, journalists and think tanks" outlining the coming war with Lebanon, explaining that a combination of air and ground forces would target Hezbollah and "transportation and communication arteries."

Which raises a question: If journalists have been told by Israel for more than a year that a war was coming, why are they pretending that it all started on July 12? By truncating the cause-and-effect timelines of both the Gaza and Lebanon conflicts, editorial boards at major U.S. dailies gravely oversimplify the decidedly more complex nature of the facts on the ground.
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
30 Jul 2006
Looks like nessie is getting attention-starved again.

And it's easy to see why: I just checked his sandbox, and it turns out that -- under nessie's stellar leadership -- SF-IMC has been offline for an entire month. It must frustrate him terribly; all that barely-disguised Jew-bashing -- oh, sorry, "Zionist" bashing, *wink wink* -- he could have done has been postponed or spilled over into other sites. But then, when you've chased nearly everyone out of your collective by being the international IMC network's biggest asshat, well, that limits your technical options, doesn't it, nessie.

Did anybody even notice, by the way, that SF-IMC -- once the flagship of the IMC network -- has been down for an entire month? I didn't see it mentioned once anywhere.

For what it's worth, I wasn't the one who hid your posts, and the guy who did is going to laugh his ass off when he sees you're calling him a "Zionist mole."

@%
"SF-IMC has been offline for an entire month."
Current rating: 0
31 Jul 2006
Here's why:

http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2006/07/1731835.php
many hands, light work -- no hands, very very slow work
Current rating: 0
31 Jul 2006
Cleaning up after a spambot and adding captchas took an entire month, nessie? SF-IMC used to have one of the best tech groups going. Too bad you chased them all off. Maybe then half a day's worth of work wouldn't have taken a month.

@%<
"Too bad you chased them all off"
Current rating: 0
01 Aug 2006
(1.) The real problem here is that there aren't enough progressive left techies to go around for every IMC to have its own crew. Responsibility for tech support should be at a global level. It's not. A worse problem is that no one at a global level, least of all the techies, are willing to take a stand against disinfo and enemy propaganda. That's why IMC is a joke. That's why I personally spend the bulk of my time doing something else, something far more productive. I'd tell you what, but that would just draw fire. I'm not going to do that. I've learned from the success of Hizbullah's tactic of anonymity:

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2006/07/171634_comment.php#171804

Smart guys, those Hizbullah. They not only stood up to the racist aggressors, they whupped 'em. Now they're whupping 'em again. The IDF is doing pretty good against unarmed civilians and inanimate objects, but in the fighters of Hizbullah, they have met their match and then some. Indymedia is more like the PLO, "no discipline and too much showing off."


(2.) But let's look past the rebuilding problems and examine the actual source of the hack itself. Who did it? Was it some anonymous geek in a bunker in Tel Aviv? Perhaps. They do things like that.

Or was it gehrig himself? He had the motive, the means and the opportunity. That makes him a suspect, at the very least. And now he's blaming the victims. How typical. This is what Zionists usually do to excuse their atrocities. It's a pattern we see over and over. If gehrig was more loyal Indymedia than he is to the murderous Israeli state, he would have offered to help SF-IMC rebuild from the Zionist assault, for after all, an injury to one is an injury to all. He didn't. That tells us everything we need to know about him.

Sad to say, it also says all we need to know about the Indymedia global tech crew in general. Their incoherent politics are symptomatic of the Left in general. No wonder the Left is a joke. They see nothing wrong with publishing disinformation and enemy propaganda, or tolerating infiltrators in their midst, and to them, solidarity is a foreign concept. Like the PLO, they are doomed to fail. No discipline and too much showing off is not a viable strategy. Indymedia is not a viable organization. In fact, it is not an organization at all. It's an undisciplined mob, no more coherent than usenet. That's why it has already lost. It's time for the progressive left to move on. In most cases, it already has. What remains is doing more harm than good.
Re: Emergency Protest! Stop Israeli Terror!
Current rating: 0
01 Aug 2006
nessie: "Indymedia is not a viable organization. In fact, it is not an organization at all. It's an undisciplined mob, no more coherent than usenet. That's why it has already lost. It's time for the progressive left to move on. In most cases, it already has. What remains is doing more harm than good."

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out, nessie.

@%<
Remember This?
Current rating: 0
01 Aug 2006
http://brian.carnell.com/archives/years/2002/09/000010.html