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News :: Civil & Human Rights |
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Wearing Peace T-shirts Can Get You Arrested. |
Current rating: 0 |
by Sascha Meinrath
Email: sascha (nospam) ucimc.org (verified) |
05 Mar 2003
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Two men wearing anti-war t-shirts were accosted by mall security in New York. One was arrested by police for refusal to remove his shirt or leave the premises.
The New York Civil Liberties Union will take up the case. It does raise questions on whether malls can abridge basic freedom of speech and it is an open question as to whether this would happen here in the Champaign-Urbana area... only empirical testing would let us know for sure. |
Full story and pictures of the "offending shirts" is available at:
http://www.msnbc.com/local/WNYT/M276307.asp?0cv=NB10
***
Peace T-shirt leads to man's arrest
Refused to remove anti-war shirt
March 4 -- Roger and Stephen Downs had these shirts made at Crossgates Mall, but Stephen Downs was arrested when he refused to take his off and leave the mall. Lindsay Cohen reports.
GUILDERLAND, N.Y., March 4 - A Selkirk man says he was arrested Monday for expressing his objection to possible war with Iraq at Crossgates Mall. He says all he did was wear a T-shirt bearing a message of peace, which he actually purchased in the mall.
By Lindsay Cohen
STEPHEN DOWNS AND his son, Roger Downs, each had a pro-peace shirt made Monday night. One shirt simply said "Let Inspections Work" on one side and "No War With Iraq" on the other. The other shirt said "Give Peace A Chance" on the front and "Peace On Earth" on the back. The men paid about $23 for each of the shirts and then wore them in the mall.
"We were just shopping. We were wearing these T-shirts. We weren't handing out leaflets, we weren't saying anything," Roger Downs recalled.
They may not have been saying anything, but they were creating enough of a disturbance to one employee, who called security.
Security asked Downs and his son to remove their shirts. Roger Downs complied, but when Stephen Downs wouldn't, he was told to leave the mall. When he refused, he was arrested.
"This struck me as a powerful way of expressing myself. I wanted to do something peaceful," he said.
Roger Downs says he is proud of his father. "I'm impressed that he's refused to have his civil rights violated," Roger Downs said.
New York Civil Liberties Union President Stephen Gottlieb says he can't believe the peaceful T-shirts could lead to Downs' arrest.
"We believe, most of us, in the Bill of Rights, and we believe that protects the freedom to speak. Well, if there's a freedom of speech, where do we get to do it?" Gottlieb asked.
Gottlieb says he believes there is a law protecting peoples' rights to free speech, even in shopping malls.
Guilderland police say they arrested Downs because he refused to leave private property. That, they say, is trespassing.
Representatives for Crossgates did not return calls for comment Tuesday.
Signs posted at entrances to the mall say that "wearing of apparel... likely to provoke disturbances... is prohibited" at the mall. |
Comments
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Pretty Amazing |
by ML
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
05 Mar 2003
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It is ironic that peace is such a "disturbing" idea.
I guess some people are alredy so used to the idea of constant, imperial war that any change in course is more disturbing than war itself should be. |
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This Is Outrageous |
by Joe Futrelle
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
05 Mar 2003
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You can call the Crossgates mall at 518-869-9565 to complain. |
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Re: Wearing Peace T-shirts Can Get You Arrested. |
by John Hilty
jhilty (nospam) shout.net (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
05 Mar 2003
Modified: 06:31:36 PM |
The courts have dealt with this issue in the past,
where they ruled in favor of people wearing
such T-shirts, even when this occurs at a mall.
I predict the ACLU will win this one.
It's shameful, really, that someone wearing "Peace on Earth"
on the back of a T-shirt should be arrested on the grounds
that they might disturb the peace.
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Re: Wearing Peace T-shirts Can Get You Arrested. |
by sb
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
05 Mar 2003
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I believe there is a famous case in which wearing a t-shirt that said "F*ck the draft" during the Vietnam war IN A COURTROOM was protected speech according to the Supreme Court. I can't see how this is any different. |
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Re: Wearing Peace T-shirts Can Get You Arrested. |
by anon (again...sigh)
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
05 Mar 2003
Modified: 10:51:15 PM |
I saw the headline, "Man arrested for wearing peace T-shirt", and naturally assumed the guy just got arbitrarily handcuffed while waiting in line at Sbarro's.
Not quite. More yogic media contortion.
See the criminal complaint at http://www.thesmokinggun.com/
(at present the exact link is http://www.thesmokinggun.com/doc_o_day/crossgates1.html)
They were "greeting" shoppers (a'la anti-abortion whackos) and preaching the anti-Iraqi liberation line to people at the mall, and they finally got ahold of a live one (like me) who told them what they thought. A shouting match ensued, and when the rent-a-cops told them to leave, they didn't. Now, is this the most heinous crime in the world? Not really. But I doubt they'd take kindly to me standing on their front lawn shouting invective. Another case of bad news made worse here on good ol' indymedia. |
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Oh No, I Agree With You |
by Jack Ryan
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
06 Mar 2003
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The guy should be able to wear whatever he likes without fear from the police. Similar to the recent Supreme Court decision which allows Pro Life protesters to remain outside the death clinics. Not very Peaceful in there is it?
The guy with the T Shirt should have just had his ass kicked by a Red Blooded American Patriot such as myself.
ML, Imperial War, come on, please read a history book.
Jack |
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Mall Wants To Drop Peace T-Shirt Charges |
by AP
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
06 Mar 2003
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The Associated Press
GUILDERLAND, N.Y. March 5 —
Officials at a mall where a man was arrested for refusing to remove an anti-war T-shirt asked Wednesday that trespassing charges against him be dropped.
Police said managers from Crossgates Mall called and asked that the complaint against Stephen Downs be withdrawn. Police Chief James Murley said he would support the mall's decision.
Earlier Wednesday, about 100 anti-war demonstrators marched through the mall to protest the arrest. They told a mall manager they would stop only when charges against the shopper were dropped and when the mall outlined its policy.
"We just want to know what the policy is and why it's being randomly enforced," said Erin O'Brien, an organizer of the noontime rally. "It's only the people in the recent months who have anti-war or peace T-shirts that are being asked to leave the mall."
A mall spokeswoman did not return repeated calls for comment.
Downs' son, Roger, said dropping the charge would not rectify the arrest. "My father feels there's more to this. Crossgates hasn't examined what was wrong here," he said. "I think he'd like an apology."
He said his father would wait to see how the mall handles the case before deciding whether to sue.
Stephen Downs, 61, and his son were stopped Monday by mall security guards and asked to remove their shirts that read "Peace on Earth" and "Give Peace a Chance," or leave. Roger Downs, 31, took off his shirt. But his father, a lawyer with the state Commission on Judicial Conduct and a former Peace Corps volunteer, refused.
The guards called police, and he was charged with trespassing and pleaded innocent.
Tim Kelley, director of Operations for Pyramid Mall management, the mall's owner, said in a statement that Downs' behavior and clothing was disruptive to other shoppers.
The men had had the T-shirts made at a mall store and wore them while they shopped.
Copyright 2003 The Associated Press. |
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More Interesting Discussion |
by ML
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
06 Mar 2003
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http://www.monkeytime.org/archive/Mar2003.html#mallspeech |
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Re: Wearing Peace T-shirts Can Get You Arrested. |
by nun yo bid'nes
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
06 Mar 2003
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Anon wrote:
"...A shouting match ensued,...."
I read the smoking gun website.
There was no mention of a shouting match. A woman was "afraid of what might happen" but no signing witness to the complaint on the smoking gun website witnessed any shouting match. Perhaps people reacted in such a way...but...you have no fact to back up your assumption. |
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Re: Wearing Peace T-shirts Can Get You Arrested. |
by anon
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
06 Mar 2003
Modified: 10:36:04 PM |
The complaint (which has since been dismissed by the mall) describes a "verbal dispute"; I summarized that to "shouting match".
So there's that. The mall has announced that the T-shirts will be available at 80% off the original price in 6-8 weeks*.
*That was a joke; please don't ask for proof. Sheesh. |
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Guard Fired To Cover Management's Ass |
by BRUCE A. SCRUTON
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
09 Mar 2003
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By BRUCE A. SCRUTON, Staff writer
First published: Saturday, March 8, 2003
Guilderland -- Security officer reports Crossgates owner fired him after arrest of protester
The security officer at Crossgates Mall who signed a trespassing complaint against a war protester was fired Friday.
Robert Williams said he was called into the mall security office about four hours into his shift and told he was fired because of Monday's incident and for signing the complaint against Steve Downs, 60, of Selkirk.
Downs' arrest brought Crossgates national notoriety and sparked a protest march against the facility's policies. He was arrested for trespassing when mall officials told him to leave or remove an anti-war T-shirt he had purchased there.
On Wednesday, amid a protest over Downs' arrest, officials from Pyramid Management Group, which operates the mall, said they would drop the charge against Downs.
Williams, who has worked in security at the mall for more than nine years, said he signed the complaint on the orders of his boss, assistant director of security Fred Tallman. Those orders came after Tallman told the Guilderland police officer working the case that he (Tallman) was too busy to come to the police station and that Williams represented the company and should sign.
"I just followed directions of management of that mall to the letter," Williams said Friday evening. "And I get fired for doing my job."
Mall officials did not return phone calls Friday evening seeking comment. Guilderland Police Chief James Murley also did not respond to a request for comment.
Williams said it was Tallman who made the decision on Monday to have Downs arrested if he and his son, Roger Downs, 31, refused to take off T-shirts that bore peace slogans.
Williams said security had received a call from Macy's security that there had been a confrontation with two men wearing anti-war T-shirts. Williams said he spotted the men near the food court and that about the same time, a Guilderland police officer showed up. "We had not called them (town police), but the two of us talked to them," he said.
Over a period of time, it became clear, Williams said, that the elder Downs was not going to take off the T-shirt or leave the mall. Williams said he received orders over the mall's radio that if they refused, they were to be charged with trespassing.
When Steve Downs was taken to the police substation in the mall, the paperwork was written up. Tallman was contacted by the officer, Williams said, and told the officer to have Williams sign the complaint because "he represents the company so he can sign."
News of the arrest sparked a protest Wednesday by anti-war demonstrators, most of whom wore T-shirts. Mall officials did not meet with the protesters but announced later that day that they would drop charges against Downs.
Williams has been honored by the town for his service at the mall and on two occasions, after leaving for other work that fell through, the mall rehired him for security posts.
"My work record speaks for itself," Williams said in his own defense. "And I've already been told they're not going to pay unemployment so I shouldn't even file."
He said that after he was fired, he was handed paperwork, known as "write-ups," to sign, but he refused. The write-ups were in relation to Monday's incident.
Williams said he had been verbally reprimanded this week over a Saturday incident in which he tried keep out a man who previously had been banned from the mall. He said there also was a court order banning him from the mall.
But Williams was told to let the man in because he had been hired as a maintenance worker. "Because of that, I was just going to follow orders," he said about the Monday arrest.
"I guess that when it comes down to it," he added, "It's the people who sign the paperwork who get the blame, not the people who told you to do it."
Copyright 2003 Albany Times Union |
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