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Announcement :: UCIMC
Statement Of Clarification And Apology Current rating: 0
26 Jun 2005
This statement was consensed to by the UC IMC Steering Group on June 16th, 2005. Having heard no objections from the spokes not present after extensive discussions, in both a special ad hoc working group and at the Steering group level, this is the definitive statement from the UC IMC Steering group on this issue.

The UC-IMC Steering Committee would like to comment on the recent controversy surrounding the following claim, made by Sascha Meinrath at a press conference announcing the purchase of the UCIMC's new building:
"There are over 150 Independent Media Centers in 50 plus countries worldwide. And this IMC here in Urbana-Champaign is the umbrella under which the entire global network operates. We are in essence the global headquarters for the Indymedia movement, here in Urbana."

Several UC-IMCistas were offended by this comment, as were others in the Indymedia network. We believe this statement was worded badly and needs clarification.

The Indymedia network operates on principles of autonomy and non-hierarchy, and the UC-IMC strongly affirms these principles. The UC-IMC, a 501(c)3 non-profit organization, hosts the funds of a number of other projects, including some other Indymedia collectives. This is a service we provide only at the request of these other organizations.

There are two ways to look at the structure of the IMC network: the organizational structure and the legal/fiscal structure. So much of the workings of the IMC network on a day-to-day basis are related to the organizational structure that IMCistas sometimes are surprised to learn that there is a legal/fiscal structure too.

This legal/fiscal structure was created by consensus of the IMC network in 2001 and 2002. There is a global Finance working group operating through the imc-finance mailing list. In 2002, this working group consensed that for legal purposes -- that is, on paper -- the Global Indymedia network is "fiscally sponsored" by the UC-IMC. This means that, under US tax law, UC-IMC has legally shared its status as a non-profit organization with the Global Indymedia network. Additional details describing and documenting this relationship and the rationale behind it are available on the UC-IMC website.

There is nothing permanent about this fiscal sponsorship, nor should there be. UC-IMC actively encourages working toward other solutions -- either that other US IMC collectives gain 501(c)3 status independent of UC-IMC and allow the fiscal sponsorship of Global to rotate among them; or that Global Indymedia Network become a 501(c)3 itself.

Without this fiscal context, however -- a context many IMCistas were not likely to know about, and which Sascha didn't provide in his off-the-cuff statement -- the comment "this IMC here in Urbana-Champaign is the umbrella under which the entire global network operates" sounds like a direct attack on organizational autonomy between Indymedia collectives, rather than a statement about the legal/fiscal organization of the Indymedia network.

We at UC-IMC strongly affirm the principle of the autonomy of the IMC collectives, and regret that a statement was made by a member of our collective apparently undermining that principle. We recognize that there were IMCistas deeply offended by the implications of the statement, and we apologize for inadvertently appearing, through miscommunication, to suggest that we do not recognize and honor the principle of organizational autonomy between IMC collectives.

We also wish to affirm that the above statement by Sascha was accurately reported by our radio volunteer, Dave Berliner. The reporting of that statement and the implications contained within it was not a mistake on the part of the IMCista.

Note: This is the official statement consensed to by the UC IMC Steering Group on June 16th, 2005. Further information about this issue may be found in the first comment below. Related article include:

http://www.ucimc.org/feature/display/35878/index.php http://www.ucimc.org/feature/display/34385/index.php


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The IMC Network and UC-IMC's Place Within It
Current rating: 0
26 Jun 2005

The IMC Network and UC-IMC's Place Within It

What does "IMC" mean?

The Independent Media Center is a network of collectively run media outlets for the creation of radical, accurate, and passionate tellings of the truth. We work out love for, and are inspired by, people who continue to work for a better world, despite corporate media's distortions and unwillingness to cover the efforts to free humanity. For more about the IMC and its core principles, see the Indymedia Documentation Project, from which the preceding language was taken.

People use "IMC" to mean different things at different times, and this can be a potential source of confusion. Depending on context, it could mean:

  • any local IMC collective, in this case UC-IMC;
  • the Global Indymedia network collective; or
  • the entire collective of local IMC collectives, taken as a whole.

How is the IMC network organized?

There are two ways to look at the structure of the IMC network: the organizational structure and the legal/fiscal structure. So much of the workings of the IMC network on a day-to-day basis are related to the organizational structure that many IMCistas are surprised to learn that there even is a legal/fiscal structure alongside the organizational structure.

Why are there two simultaneous structures, organizational and fiscal/legal?

Here is the rationale, as given when UC-IMC first made the proposal to the IMC-Finance working group (link):

My concern is more how to balance the desire for a democratic and participatory process and the need for an efficient and legally accountable financial structure (e.g. one that can pay necessary taxes, knows how its money is being used, and is using legal accounting proceedures). I am a big fan of devolving authority and hierachy as much as possible, however, I also believe that without accountability, commons often are abused. I view our current conundrum as a manifestation of this tension between the creation of an egalitarian structure of financial decision-making and protecting the financial common though minimal, though necessary, accountability. We're all interested in seeing the Global IMC flourish. The question right now is how to balance the desires of a heterogeneous group of people and create a structure that incorporates both elements of this tension.)

What is the organizational structure?

  • Local Collectives -- Taken from the FAQ: "There are currently over one hundred and fifty Independent Media Centers around the world. Each IMC is an autonomous group that has its own mission statement, manages its own finances and makes its own decisions through its own processes." Each IMC may have a variety of projects. For example, projects at UC-IMC include the print newspaper The Public (i), a radio news segment broadcast on WEFT, and the low-power FM station WRFU. To learn more about each IMC, visit its web page.
  • The Global Indymedia Network (aka indymedia.org) -- Taken from the FAQ: "indymedia.org" is an organization composed of independent media activists from around the world who are working to coordinate international independent media projects. The indymedia.org group manages an international Indymedia page (http://www.indymedia.org) and coordinates technical and editorial policy issues that affect all IMCs that are associated with the Indymedia network.
Click on image for a larger version

orgstruct.jpg

This diagram isn't meant to be all-encompassing, but to give a general idea of the flow between IMC collectives, the projects associated with those collectives, and the Global Indymedia network. For example, NYC-IMC has, along with their Indymedia site, a print newspaper called the IndyPendent. UC-IMC has a series of projects along with this site.

How was this organizational structure decided on?

A considerable amount of discussion was involved in the first years of the Indymedia project. Documents about the founding of Indymedia can be found here.

What is the legal/fiscal structure, and how was it decided on?

In a nutshell -- there's more detail below -- it's like this. UC-IMC is a non-profit organization under US tax law. UC-IMC extends this non-profit status to some other organizations through a process known as fiscal sponsorship. Some of the projects allied to UC-IMC through this process are other IMC collectives (such as NYC and Michigan).

Another project allied to UC-IMC in this way is the Global Indymedia network itself.

legalstruct.jpg

Again, this diagram doesn't encompass the entire network, but is meant to show the fiscal/legal relationship between UC-IMC, other IMC collectives -- some, like NYC, fiscally allied with UC-IMC, some not -- and the Global Indymedia network.

Therefore, in the strictly legal sense -- that is, on paper -- UC-IMC serves as the fiscal/legal headquarters of the Global Indymedia Network. This important distinction -- between the organizational structure and the fiscal/legal structure -- has been a source of confusion. UC-IMC makes no claim that it is organizationally the headquarters of the Global Indymedia Network. Organizationally, we are simply one IMC collective among many.

What was that again?

UC-IMC makes no claim that it is organizationally the headquarters of the Global Indymedia Network. According to the consensus of the IMC-Finance working group (as documented in the next section), however, UC-IMC is -- on paper -- currently the fiscal/legal headquarters of the Global Indymedia Network. Financial donations made to the Global Indymedia network, rather than to individual IMC collectives, are sent to and disbursed by UC-IMC, as noted here on the Global Indymedia site, indymedia.org.

How was the arrangement between Global Indymedia Network and UC-IMC arrived at?

The process can be tracked by reading correspondence available on the imc-finance working group list for 2001 and 2002; follow the links for the details.
  • The possibility of fiscal sponsorship by UC-IMC was first suggested by Sascha Meinrath of UC-IMC in July, 2001 (link).
  • This was part of a larger discussion of developing the sustainability of the Indymedia movement (link).
  • It was also proposed that Global Indymedia Network pursue 501(c)3 status itself (link).
  • Discussion continued and continued.
  • The UC-IMC collective approved the offer to fiscally sponsor Global in December, 2001 (link).
  • The original fiscal sponsor, Jam for Justice, withdrew its fiscal sponsorship in February, 2002 (link).
  • The official proposal was presented to imc-finance in late February, 2002 (link) and approved in March, 2002 (link).
This arrangement does not imply that UC-IMC is in any way owner of the Global Indymedia network, or Indymedia as a whole. Nor does UC-IMC have any intention or desire to change the fundamentally autonomous nature of the IMC collectives. The autonomous media collective is the cornerstone of the IMC movement.

How do IMC collectives handle their finances?

There is no standard IMC model for handling finances, and such decisions are left to the local collectives.

In the US, there are advantages to the tactic of either

  • registering with the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) as a non-profit organization, or
  • fiscally allying with another organization already recognized as a non-profit.

If the IRS agrees that you are a non-profit organization, it grants you something called 501(c)3 status. The benefits of gaining this status include:

  • Donations to that IMC collective, up to a certain limit, can be deducted from your income at tax time.
  • Bequests to the IMC collective, with certain restrictions, are exempt from the estate tax.
  • The collective itself is exempt from paying some taxes, such as sales taxes on media supplies and equipment.

If you fiscally ally with a 501(c)3, then the same benefits also apply. The process of allying with a 501(c)3 is called "fiscal sponsorship." This should not be interpreted to mean the 501(c)3 organization somehow owns the organizations fiscally allied with it in this way. Such ownership of one IMC collective by another would be against the autonomous spirit of Indymedia.

When did the UC-IMC become a 501(c)3 organization?

UC-IMC has been a 501(c)3 organization since June, 2001. The process of registering as a 501(c)3 organization involved, among other things, the writing of bylaws, the election of officers, and interacting with the IRS.

Will UC-IMC hold this fiscal/legal position permanently?

UC-IMC does not intend to hold the fiscal sponsorship of Global Indymedia Network permanently, nor should it. We actively encourage working toward other solutions:
  • That other US IMC collectives gain 501(c)3 status independent of UC-IMC and allow the fiscal sponsorship of Global to rotate among them; or
  • That Global Indymedia Network become a 501(c)3 itself.

Does UC-IMC have a fee for hosting the funds of fiscal allies?

Yes. This is not unique to UC-IMC; it's a standard operating procedure for 501(c)3 organizations. We know of no 501(c)3 offering such a service for free. The fees are on a sliding scale negotiated up front with the organization seeking to ally financially with UC-IMC, and range from 5% upward. Money raised by this fee currently covers only part of the expense of bookkeeping, auditing, and filing costs involved and was not used as a source of funding for purchase of the UC-IMC collective's building. In effect UC-IMC is currently subsidizing the accounting out of our general operating funds.

What organizations is the UC-IMC fiscally allied with under 501(c)3?

We are in the process of putting this list together; it will appear here shortly.


Sascha Meinrath, who acted as treasurer of UC-IMC for much of its existence, has prepared the following materials about the IMC network and UC-IMC's role within it. Thanks to Sascha for providing these and the relevant links to the imc-finance archive.

Sascha's paper (.rtf) here.
Sascha's PowerPoint here.
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
27 Jun 2005
It is still very confusing. If ucimc is ORGANIZATIONALLY only one of many imc then how come that financially it is the leader of Global Media Network. Everybody knows that who has money that one is ordering music, so to speak. In short how come that ucimc became the financial stronghold behind the ENTIRE Indymedia network?
If New York or, for example, LA were chosen for this purpose, it would be at least understandable, but Champaign - Urbana...?
My opinion - this article doesn't clarify the issue, seems more like vice versa.
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
27 Jun 2005
Yes, there is no clarification. It is also impossible to understand why Danielle Chynoweth and other asked money from imc, as malatesta emphasized a number of times.
Strange article and strange first comment.
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
27 Jun 2005
Excellent presentation, and not confusing to me in the least, FWIW. Thanks for the effort!

If I understand it correctly, UCIMC serves as the conduit for tax-exempt money flow, for some other IMC's, in a purely voluntary partnership.

Doesn't mean UCIMC has any administrative control, or otherwise exerts any influence on it's "children" org's, just that UCIMC facilitates the tax-exempt status those children org's couldn't secure without assistance.

Many IMC's cooperate with other IMC's in sharing resources, whether it be for money management or web server hosting, or forum software development.

I can't imagine UCIMC would ever exert any administrative or political influence over those "children" IMC's. It's purely a favor of administrative purposes, nothing else.

Sascha was rightfully proud of everything UCIMC has accomplished and spoke in the spirit of the moment. That is understandable, even if his choice of words was less than optimal.

The immediate apology from PR's video group wasn't productive, and the response posted here should've been the first, immediate, and only response offered.

Long Live Independent Media!
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
27 Jun 2005
"If ucimc is ORGANIZATIONALLY only one of many imc then how come that financially it is the leader of Global Media Network. "

*if* they are the leader, it's simply because they have taken the lead. (although i think for the uc-imc to claim they are the leader is misleading. not all groups are following the uc-imc model. other imc's have other arrangements-like passing the hat at collective meetings to pay for the servers etc. or using another organization's fiscal sponsorship, like sf.indymedia who are fiscally sponsored by the Agape Foundation)

but anyway, back to ucimc's positions, if i understand correctly, they simply took the initiative to get 501-c3 status. as the fearless one would say " it's hard work."

they then offered this "fiscal sponsorship" to other IMC's who ask for it. if a group gets this (or another) fiscal sponsorship, they don't have to go through the whole 501-c3 application process, but they get to coat-tail off ucimc's.

Nothing is stopping a different (at least state-side) Indymedia, or the whole network from doing their own 501-c3, except maybe the fact that it is difficult, time consuming work and nobody has wanted to do it. yet. apparently nothing has stopped sf.indymedia and indybay from getting different fiscal sponsors.

Nothing requires any Indymedia collective to accept uc-imc's fiscal sponsorship. or to accept money raised under this umbrella the ucimc took the initiative to make.

i've read the contract and groups who are "fiscally sponsored" remain free to leave their fiscal sponsorship by giving written notice (or something like that).

frankly, i'd like to see the terms of the fiscal sponsorship agreements REQUIRE a percentage (5?) of the proceeds raised be put in an account earmarked for the global south and east.

i think it's great that the uc-imc offers this service to others in the collective.
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
27 Jun 2005
you need to apologize for the ugly neologism "consensed."
it's not english. it's bureaucratese
agreed to, among other phrases, works perfectly well
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
27 Jun 2005
Excellent explanation. I was at the Steering meeting at which the original statement / article above was issued, and I found it immediately clear and accessible. Kudos and thanks!
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
27 Jun 2005
>>>
...ugly neologism "consensed."
it's not english. it's bureaucratese
agreed to, among other phrases, works perfectly well
<<<

Couldn't agree more. Although I'm not expecting an apology, just a different phrase.

Also, most sentences start with a word that's capitalized. Most sentences also end with a period. "English" is almost always capitalized, and "bureaucratese" is not a word, either, although I know exactly what you mean.

People in glass houses...
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
27 Jun 2005
you need to apologize for the ugly neologism "consensed."
it's not english. it's bureaucratese
agreed to, among other phrases, works perfectly well
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
27 Jun 2005
I agree that "consensed" isn't the loveliest word in the world. (That would be, depending on the circumstances, either "love," "yes," or "Pilsner-Urquell.") But it carries the procedural meaning of "agreed to by unanimous consensus" in a way no other word I know does, which is why I used it in the statement.

But from here on out I'll use "urquelled" instead. "The following statement, 'People under Glass Bridges,' was urquelled by the UC-IMC Steering committee ..."

@%<
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
27 Jun 2005
UN: "The immediate apology from PR's video group wasn't productive, and the response posted here should've been the first, immediate, and only response offered."

The ad hoc group that put this statement together convened almost immediately after Sascha's off-the-cuff comment took on a life of its own. But it was essential to be accurate, get the right documentation, and give people a chance to contribute and respond, and that ended up taking a considerable amount of time.

The more we looked into it, the more we saw that Sascha just wasn't wrong about the gist of what he had said, he just didn't prepare or deliver that particular part of it well, so it sounded like he was saying something much different.

The video group saw the need for an immediate statement, and they weren't wrong for that. The fiscal issue group saw the need for a statement explaining well what had been explained badly, and we weren't wrong for that. Both approaches had strengths and weaknesses.

@%<
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
27 Jun 2005
>>>
The video group saw the need for an immediate statement, and they weren't wrong for that.
<<<

I disagree. It shouldn't have come from the Video Group, and as written/offered by PR. I've expressed my reasons in detail, elsewhere.
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
27 Jun 2005
I also personally would have preferred not to have a statement until we all had a chance to see what the facts were, rather than shooting from the hip, but now that it's all out on the table, people can take a look and decide for themselves.

@%<
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
28 Jun 2005
What's the matter, "Jack," don't think you're getting your money's worth?

@%<
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
28 Jun 2005
THE ONLY REAL THING THAT IS POSSIBLE TO CONCLUDE FROM THESE NUMEROUS SMOKE CURTAINS IS THE FACT THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS SHOWN SPECIAL SUPPORT TO UCIMC BY GIVING IT THE NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATION STATUS, THE STATUS , WHICH WERE NOT ABLE TO RECEIVE OTHER IMC. THE SAN FRANCISCO AND BAY IMC OBTAINED, IN DIFFERENCE WITH THAT, THE FINANCIAL SUPPORT OF SOME CORPORATION(S). UCIMC WAS AND IS REFUSING TO SHOW DONORS' LIST, HOWEVER, THE FACT THAT THEY GOT THIS VERY EXCEPTIONAL TREATMENT FROM FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS ELOQUENT ENOUGH. ONCE AGAIN, NO OTHER IMC, THOUGH APPLYING, WERE ABLE TO GET THIS STATUS BEFORE. THERE ARE A LOT OF DIFFICULT REQUIREMENTS FOR THIS STATUS, INCLUDING THE ABILITY TO EXIST ON SOMEONE'S DONATION FOR AT LEAST TWO YEARS PRIOR TO THIS STATUS (UCIMC DOESN'T WANT TO DISCLOSE DONORS LIST), ETC.
SO, NOW UCIMC TRIES TO BECOME FINANCIAL LEADER OF IMC ON THE BASIS OF THIS EXCEPTIONAL TREATMENT OF FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. WHAT KIND OF THE INDEPENDENCE IS THIS? WHAT KIND OF INDEPENDENT LEADERSHIP, IDEOLOGICAL AND/OR FINANCIAL, CAN THEY OFFER TO OTHER IMC. SO NAMED FREE MEDIA ON THE PAYROLL OF FEDS! IT WAS MORE THAN CLEAR FROM THE BEGINNING, AND THERE ARE NO POSSIBLE SMOKE CURTAINS TO COVER IT UP. MAYBE, THERE WOULD BE OTHER IMC INTERESTED TO FIND THEIR PLACE UNDER THIS SO NAMED UMBRELLA, I HOPE THAT -NOT, OR VERY, VERY FEW. OTHER WAY, I, MYSELF, AND VERY MANY OTHERS SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF THEIR EFFORTS TO FIGHT FOR INDEPENDENT MEDIA (OR AT LEAST FOR INDY MEDIA). THIS STORY REMINDS ME SOMEHOW THE HEALTH PLAN OF CLINTONS -THE MORE EXPLANATIONS WERE GIVEN ABOUT THE DESIGN OF THAT PLAN-THE MORE UNACCEPTABLE IT WAS LOOKING.
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
28 Jun 2005
Yes, it looks like they are repeating the same things, which explain nothing, all over again and again, trying to make people's minds tired and this way to get away with this pretty sleazy situation. It is like with Iraqi war, or similar.
Re: It's all over but the...
Current rating: 0
28 Jun 2005
... nutters.

@%<
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
28 Jun 2005
Of course, gehrig, nutters or Jack and Anna. The usual answer, and the usual suspects.
But all questions are still unanswered, or better to say - all suspicions are fully confirmed.
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
28 Jun 2005
Make that nutters and paranoid. The idea that the federal government is funding and influencing UCIMC is interesting from a conspiracy theory standpoint, but quite ridiculous. I demand that "curious" and "I agree" provide proof of this. Of course, I expect the usual response of "Look it up yourself, I don't have time or interest in doing your work for you." And then I'll be left wondering why, if it's so unimportant to curious and her multiple personality buddies/noms-de-plume that they're unwilling to provide proof, why they persist in complaining. I guess they don't have anything better to do. Oh, well. Time to move on.
Trolls, Screw 'Em!
Current rating: 0
28 Jun 2005
After awhile, even the slowest witted among us have figured out that when we're seeing the usual BS being repeated under different names from day to day, it should be no surprise that we conclude it that it probably is "The usual answer, and the usual suspects."

In any case, we've grown tired of that stuff and decided to move on. I'd appreciate it if a little firmer application of the applicable editing guidlines were used on this boring, tenditious, and ultimately utterly irrelevant posting behavior, whoever is really behind it.
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
28 Jun 2005
regular reader, and whoever else, people who are watching your numerous senseless attempts to make smoke curtains are NOT OBLIGATED to provide ANY proofs. Would you, please, realize such simplest thing? To obtain not profit status for any organization is practically impossible without the very serious financial sponsorship, everybody who ever dealt with it knows it. If your sponsor in this case is not federal government but any other organization, you should have disclosed this sponsor's name. But you have chosen not to. It is more than eloquent. For example, San Francisco imc is not ashamed to disclose its sponsor name , and nobody is suspicious about its every day's existence, you chose different path. So blame yourself for all very natural consequences of this choice. You can repeat one thousand times that you moved on. That is, however, NOT YOUR CHOICE to make. And this current article doesn't solve and/or explain anything, it is empty and senseless. That is all.
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
28 Jun 2005
Okay, it's time for everyone to 'fess up. We are a front organization for the Keebler Elves. We're only pretending to be an IMC (= "I'm Making Cookies").

We've been given two assignments by the oxymoronically named Big Elf Himself. One is to make the western hemisphere safe for hydrogenated oils via a nefarious plot to subjenctfully subjergate the subterfugalist subcontinent; the other is to drive paranoids wacky by dropping hints that we're really a government agency -- sorry, can't say which one, or the Elves will slip arsenic into my next batch of ginger snaps.

Boy, do I feel better having gotten that off my chest.

@%<
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
28 Jun 2005
Ah, curious, you did not disappoint me. You "are NOT OBLIGATED to provide ANY proofs" of your outlandish claims. How unoriginal and predictable. And of course, you are an expert on obtaining non-profit status, stating "Everybody who ever dealt with it knows it." I'm really impressed, NOT. Accusations without proof. How can you expect anyone to take you seriously?

By the way, who is the corporate sponsor of SFIMC? I can't find that information anywhere. Their website claims, "We are neither owned nor funded by big conglomerates or advertisers -- your financial support, no matter the amount, is what keeps us going." Are you claiming that they are liars? Your predictable response: "I don't have to answer that question..."
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
28 Jun 2005
Is it mandatory on this board to talk to La Ley? I don't like her (him) much either. Should my comments be hidden because of that?
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
29 Jun 2005
Usual stuff: accusations, name calling, changing of the texts of the comments, etc., and immediately hidden responses, if these responses are trying to give to accusers the similar in exchange. What does it have in common with ANY freedom? Anyhow, nothing new, I have seen it here before. The only interesting thing is to see how many imc would take this very suspicious "umbrella", if any at all, and then make up finally my own mind about indy media in general.
In spite of the article of 'curious', where he/she asked to support free press, and mainly because of the treatment his/her comments have here after these more than strange 'apology and clarification' I think that I'd not better fight currently for free media, or even act anyhow on its behalf, I would better 'stay clear'. Under the current circumstances, this so named free press movement looks to me like not a real thing at all. Was it the main goal of this article, and of some of following comments to give independent readers such impression? Maybe, It looks like that. Clarification without any real clarification can't by design achieve anything else. In any case, neither the article, nor many of following comments and their editorial treatment support either any practical freedom of speech or the first amendment, per se.
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
29 Jun 2005
Let me put it this way, 'agree.' You and 'curious' don't have to talk to me. You don't have to post anything to this website, either. However, if you're going to post false statements, you should expect others to question them, and if you can't support your statements or get caught in a lie, you can expect to look like a fool. The choice is completely yours.
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
29 Jun 2005
What choice? Editors deleted 'curious' comments where he/she explained all his/her statements, and even what should have been my part. The content of comments hereby, he/she referred to, was changed, even though his/her referrals have been already deleted or hidden. I don't see any difference between this virtual treatment of his/her comments and what is going on not virtually in such facilities, as Guatanamo and Abu Shirab. Who in right mind would want such kind of "freedom" or "free media"? Come on, ucimc, your 'umbrella' sucks so strongly that it is really interesting to see whether at least one more imc would choose to use it.
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
29 Jun 2005
Oh, yeah, UC-IMC and Gitmo. Now _there's_ an analogy.

I'd argue that you are being treated with considerably more courtesy than you deserve.

What have you contributed to this organization other than incessant pissing and moaning and whining and lying? Not a goddamned thing.

@%<
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
29 Jun 2005
Is anyone here *not* able to decipher the RANDOM CAPITALS and poor grammar as she-who-shall-not-be-named?
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
29 Jun 2005
Who is he/she," who shouldn't be named"?
Who can ever contribute anything on the conditions, which I have mentioned in my previous comment, or , at that matter ever want to contribute? Maybe, almighty god, but not any human being. Continuing this "wonderful" logic, you, probably, should declare that victims of murders , rapes, or so, are guilty not their predators because they hadn't bothered themselves to 'butter" prior to crimes they were victims of their perpetrators, had they? Yes, it seems that ucimc is not only becoming the "Great Financial Leader" of the world media, but also the great reformer of all accepted in the civilized world codes of laws. Other imc should sure crash each other, trying to obtain their place under your ' revolutionary umbrella', shouldn't they?
Your smoke curtains are not working, find another entertainment for yourself!
This article annulled "successfully" the efforts of some previous articles on this web, that is its entire achievement. Everybody can see it, and that is why you are hiding, deleting and modifying all comments of this string.
Anyhow, I have had enough.
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
29 Jun 2005
troll: [rape victim analogy]

Wow, you're really not just around the bend, but you're +offensively+ around the bend.

troll: "Anyhow, I have had enough."

You keep saying that, and yet you never leave. Why not try this: say you're leaving, and then actually leave.

Or at least stop pretending to be two different people -- "curious" and "I agree" -- having a conversation while using the same linguistic peculiarities in both personas, something going to ALL CAPS doesn't hide.

@%<
SFIMC, UCIMC, and the Agape Foundation
Current rating: 0
29 Jun 2005
curious wrote: "THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS SHOWN SPECIAL SUPPORT TO UCIMC BY GIVING IT THE NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATION STATUS, THE STATUS , WHICH WERE NOT ABLE TO RECEIVE OTHER IMC. THE SAN FRANCISCO AND BAY IMC OBTAINED, IN DIFFERENCE WITH THAT, THE FINANCIAL SUPPORT OF SOME CORPORATION(S)."

curious, you seem horribly confused, so let me give you some information from various sources that can be used to connect the dots.

From SFIMC website (sf.indymedia.org/process/donate.php):

"We are neither owned nor funded by big conglomerates or advertisers -- your financial support, no matter the amount, is what keeps us going."

"If you would like your donation to be tax-deductible, make your check or money order payable to the Agape Foundation, one of our fiscal sponsors."

From the Agape Foundation website(http://www.agapefn.org/):

"The Agape Foundation Fund for Nonviolent Social Change is a non-profit public foundation founded in 1969 out of opposition to the war in Southeast Asia. Pacifists, World War II conscientious objectors and anti-Vietnam War activists founded it in order to build a movement that seriously challenged the Pentagon and the American culture of violence. The Foundation’s purpose is to fund nonviolent social change organizations committed to peace and justice issues. Unlike social services that aid and assist individuals, social change efforts confront the root causes of social problems by challenging the responsible systems and institutions."

I don't really see any big difference between what the Agape Foundation does for SFIMC and what UCIMC does for a few other IMC's. They are both non-profit organizations that "fiscally sponsor" other IMC's so that donations made to them are tax-deductible. Did that straighten things out for you, curious?
None of my comments have been changed
Current rating: 0
29 Jun 2005
I wanted to respond to accusations that I've somehow changed and/or deleted some of my comments.

curious wrote in reference to me: "She immediately changes her comments, messing up all contents of her own and especially others' responses."

I agree wrote: "... that is why you are hiding, deleting and modifying all comments of this string."

For the record, I didn't log in to an account in order to post my comments, so I CAN'T edit them. I certainly don't have the ability to edit any one else's comments, and I'm not responsible for hiding comments. If you look at the "hidden" section of the website, you can see that curious' comments were hidden by ML for policy violations. I'm not ML. If you want to discuss WHY the comments were hidden, then take it up with ML by emailing him at: imc-web (at) ucimc.org.
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
29 Jun 2005
I am very surprised and flattered that 'I agree' decided to protect me, to stay behind me, or whichever else term one wants to use for it. It is self- illusive and even self-destructive, gehrig, to unify different people into one person, though it maybe what you need to feel yourself all right, on the right track and a member of overwhelming majority, whichever. I am sorry about it, but face better the reality. At least , it is always healthier.
I don't want to communicate La Ley, no matter what shape of my mood or anything else I have. So, thanks for offer, but thanks.
Everything is clear for me with this thread, so I am leaving it. Sorry, gehrig, but I can't guarantee you that other people, who might have the same or simply similar to mine states of minds and opinions would not leave their comments in this or other strings. Take care.
Farewell, untreated basket cases
Current rating: 0
29 Jun 2005
gehrig, you've been thoroughly chastised for your poor mental hygiene by the nutter. Ouch, that's got to hurt!

She has said her goodbyes, her "final chao," so we can expect to hear nothing from her ever again. So when someone immediately picks up the slack and continues spouting the same incoherencies, be assured that it is NOT her using another alias, but rather one of her many enthusiastic followers that share her same English skills, linguistic peculiarities, and spelling errors. Hopefully it will be someone who has reasoning skills and can carry on a logical debate.
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
29 Jun 2005
Question of the day: does "smoke curtain" mean the same thing as "smokescreen"? Nope. But "curious" thinks it does. And -- by _amazing_ coincidence -- so does "I agree."

How utterly, abjectly coincidental and random.

And regarding my mental hygiene -- I use mental floss regularly, as advised by my mentist.

@%<
Farewell untreated basket cases [2]
Current rating: 0
29 Jun 2005
Oh gehrig, now you've been threatened with having your teeth knocked out by a (male?) heterosexual who refuses "to bend." The sheer homophobia, false assumptions about your sexuality, and threats of violence are shocking and disgusting. At least her/his(?) agenda and politics are clear and they are definitely NOT progressive or compatible with the goals of ANY IMC.
Farewell untreated basket cases [2.1]
Current rating: 0
29 Jun 2005
Not to mention that fact that "I agree" must be a complete idiot for not understanding what you mean when you say, "Wow, you're really not just around the bend, but you're +offensively+ around the bend." In case you can't figure it out, nutter, it means, well, that you're a nutter.
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
29 Jun 2005
Yes, folks, I'm being lectured on English usage by someone who ends with, "So, call figure..."

http://wordwebonline.com/en/AROUNDTHEBEND

@%<
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
29 Jun 2005
Thanks for this discussion. I've already cast my vote in the WEFT board of directors election with information obtained from this website in mind.
I have to go -- I'm due back on the planet earth
Current rating: 0
30 Jun 2005
So in this thread we get basically the following argument from the variously-named troll(s):

1. The UCIMC has non-profit status, therefore it must have at least one sponsor with deep pockets
2. The UCIMC disputes this non sequitur, therefore they are trying to hide their sponsor
3. Because they're trying to hide their sponsor, their sponsor must be, for no apparent reason, alternately a) the federal government, b) homosexuals, c) pedophiles

These accusations are not only prima facie baseless (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirming_the_consequent), but they amount to a tactically inept attempt to smear the organization, since making them requires repeatedly violating the website's editorial policy. Illogical arguments are permitted by the policy, but not baselessly alleging that the organization is funded by criminals. As I understand the law, that's libel and it's illegal in all media.
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
30 Jun 2005
I think that abused child and concerned citizen should go to the Sheriff's office and file a complaint. That way, their names will be on record, and they can be sued for harassment, threats, and libel.
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
30 Jun 2005
Just ignore them, It's sad. Their comments are going to the trash bin. By the way, what's up with the WEFT board of directors election?
Spot the Looney
Current rating: 0
30 Jun 2005
http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis1/p21-pe01.html

@%<
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
30 Jun 2005
La Ley, Anna Epelbaum is running for a position on the WEFT board of directors. Anna's writings on this website helped me decide that she would probably try to run them into the ground as soon as they got on her bad side. Look what happened with UCIMC, how they ran an excellent article about her husband's inventions, and then she savagely attacked some of their volunteers by name for no apparent reason. It's all documented on this website. There were three other good, experienced candidates, so I voted for two of them and I voted against her. Today was the last day to vote. We'll see how it turns out.
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
01 Jul 2005
"Sorry seems to be the hardest word, It's sad, so sad".
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
02 Jul 2005
Looks like you folks have a good old fashioned power struggle going on. Please don't let it damage your group, you do too much good work here!!
Anna, in her own words.
Current rating: 0
02 Jul 2005
At the request of “just suggestion,” who said, “If you are really going to accuse Anna Epelbaum in violating rules or whichever on this site and attribute to her all comments, being deleted and/or hidden on these pretenses, you should remove her first article about her husband, you should at least try to prove that comments you attributed to her have anything to do with her, and you should explain reasons why she was systematically called names, abused, steered from the site, etc.,” I dug up a handful of hidden posts written by Anna under her own name, and I present them here for your review. I selected the comments related to Sandra Ahten because they demonstrate a consistent pattern of obsession and abuse, although Sandra is not the only object of Anna’s ire. These comments and others in a similar vein led to Anna’s ban from posting to ucimc.org. I provide direct links to all comments as well as excerpts copied directly from the comments with no further editing. Anna has admitted writing under her husband’s name in order to get around her ban (http://www.ucimc.org/newswire/display_any/32647 and http://www.ucimc.org/newswire/display_any/32650). Many other comments written under various pseudonyms have appeared echoing her views and writing style, but whether or not these are written by Anna is irrelevant at this point--what she posted under her own name is more than sufficient to just the conclusions drawn. Without further ado, I present Anna in her own words:

http://www.ucimc.org/newswire/display/22436/index.php [Dear S (Sandra Athens, pertinent to style and usage of words), do you know the meaning of the word 'paranoid'? This is supposed to be a person, who is expecting all kinds of prosecutions without ANY reason. Now, don't you think that facts of our just only our communication would simply 'turn the table' on you? So, let us see. I (unfortunate choice)
asked you to illustrate my book, you chose not to. It was your right , no doubt about it. By the way, I am happy about your refusal now, as finally I illustrated my book directly as I wanted to and did it on my own. However, after I moved (not by my own choice, but by unpleasant necessity) to Urbana just near IMC building and placed , therefore, on the wall my tutoring advertisement, the next day yours appeared just above mine. You weren't new either in IMC, where I had received your phones before, nor in that neighborhood. So, why did my advertisement force you to place immediately yours ABOVE mine.
More than that, just after my first visit to WEFT, your advertisements appeared couple days later in WEFT building, on their bulletin board. As you, certainly, were not new at WEFT in August of 2004, in difference with me, what these two strange coincidence can tell about, ah? I think that the answer is clear: You are paranoid, expecting some kind of competition and/or prosecution from me.
Why, Sandra, ah? I am not interested in your husband, any other sexual relations , if you are bisexual, or anything like that. I like your artistic products, which I happened to see not better than you like mine, according to your comment, but I am not running around , telling that your broadcasting has very poor content, though I think it,, and I don't like things, which you have drawn or painted, and I don't. Why do you think that you can do the same to my creations in the areas where you don't have PROPER EXPERTISE, ah?
More than that , doing it you are simultaneously trying to accuse me in god knows what sins. For your information, the quality of the content of my book DOESN'T depend on how rude the people of IMC(mostly women) are to me. And all your inspiring efforts wouldn't change this fact. In short, lady, why can't you mind your own business and leave mine to me, ah?
My relations with IMC got sour the second time when I visited your meeting. In difference with the first visit, this time (the second) you were there. What are your problems, ah? Are you only paranoid or anti-Semitic also? In any occasion, take care of your mentality, and mental health, and leave me alone, would ya?]

http://www.ucimc.org/newswire/display/22452/index.php [People of this site, especially females, like Sandra Athens (S from the comment above) are having the great shortage of self-confidence in all areas, I think... The behavior of these females remind me the decision of the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeal. I finally sued Chicago Public School District for discrimination in employment. I did it Pro Se. But I fought all litigation’s hooks very successfully. They dismissed case fully illegally (three judges fired themselves from the case, the forth one dismissed it immediately when he was accepted to Federal Court in Chicago, even without reading this case's material). So, I appealed. As the Appeal Court WAS NOT able to oppose ANY legal issue in my appeal at all, they issued decision that my degrees, diplomas, Illinois Teaching Certificates, etc.. ARE THE PRODUCT OF MY IMAGINATION. I am not kidding, as it was the official decision of the Seventh Court of Appeal in WRITING.]

http://www.ucimc.org/newswire/display/22456/index.php [Amazing, six comments are hidden, but snobbish, arrogant and very stupid comment of S (Sandra A.) with pretension to judge the style and content of my postings(my current rewards for English poetry and prose are , of course, product of my imagination, aren't they??) is fully available .]

http://www.ucimc.org/newswire/display/22495/index.php [I have written in previous comments that they (including "wonderful queen -Sandra")DENIED publication by Clint Popetz, which was just the same as Phil Stinard has done, with slight difference.]

http://www.ucimc.org/newswire/display/22594/index.php [However, I, personally, met all kinds of resistance (and in IMC, and especially from Sandra Athens, in particular), trying to improve the quality of current educational system, these actions are even more urgent under the permanent and permanently increasing requirements of accountability the system of education is currently facing.
So, why is Sandra Athens, who is so concern with the treatment of inmates, is doing a lot to MULTIPLY the number of these inmates instead of doing her best to decrease this number??
Maybe, because this cause is one of the best decoration of her portfolio, she needs it to exist permanently, and therefore, the stream of new inmates should be steady and not in decline. So, who is more DESTRUCTIVE AND DAMAGEABLE to the cause of improper treatment of inmates: the people who treat them improperly or the people who do their best to keep the stream of new inmates steady to continue to make their careers on this cause?]

http://www.ucimc.org/newswire/display/22989/index.php [I am not interested in your opinion about my style, ‘um-nawn’. Whether you are Sandra Ahten-yourself, or someone to serve for her, once again, I am not interested in opinion of illiterate people. Remember it finally, would you?]

http://www.ucimc.org/newswire/display/22995/index.php [You know what ,'S', if anyone of those who declined my request during the second meeting in IMC on 1/12/04, looked at first or even after
over the Internet they would have found there about twenty times more information in at least 20 different languages than what Phil has published in his article. The problem is that none of people who were at that meeting, whether under the influence of Sandra Ahten, or, pertinent to some other reasons, were concerned with any truth, but the truth of dark spots of her (or some others also) natures.]

http://www.ucimc.org/newswire/display/23000/index.php [Because of the vanity of 'local queen'-Sandra Ahten the story of Wayne Pickette is becoming known here at least one year later than it should... I think that these numerous queens of different scales should be stopped IMMEDIATELY, if this nation and this planet want to prosper.]

http://www.ucimc.org/newswire/display/23001/index.php [However, I am curious to ask whether on the global scale the current victory of Sandra Ahten weights more than the great damage, which she caused because of her desire to be "on the top" in any situation to the popularization of the situation and work conditions of Wayne Pickette, which are VITALLY important to main goals of this establishment. Not to one single goal, but to the entire set of all environmental goals, which Green party, others, and IMC consider their main agenda. The answer to this question, as any attentive reader of this web can see, is 'NO'. It means that the positive achievements of Sandra Ahten's activities are still of much smaller weight than the damage caused by her vanity. What kind of other damage and on what level is she going to cause in the future to keep her imaginary "crown", ah? Even if slightly more than what she has caused the last year, it might be the world's catastrophe.]

http://www.ucimc.org/newswire/display/23409/index.php [Stop abusing your power over this establishment, Ms. Ahten, would you!?!?
Your personal failure, as a mother (or whichever else is the main reason of your son’s fair incarceration), is NOT sufficient reason to eliminate other MAJORITY oriented topics from this board, isn't it?]

http://www.ucimc.org/newswire/display/23425/index.php [Disgust, she and other decisive members of IMC OWED a very big apology to MY HUSBAND, and to THE ENTIRE WORLD for their part in prolonging and suppressing his claim. There is no EVEN SLIGHTEST DOUBT about it. I simply told the truth about Ms. Ahten's enormous devotion to the conditions in the Champaign county jail, which, according to my experience, as my husband was jailed here when was arrested because of the driving on the suspended license (he didn't know that his license was suspended), and Cook County jail in Chicago, where he was jailed briefly a few times for speeding and parking tickets, is much better at the point of the availability of inmates' communications, than are Chicago and Du Page County (Chicago suburb) jails ... My guess would be that Sandra Ahten (mostly) and/or few other people on this board with dictatorial power over its content ARE NOT HAVING CHILDREN OF PROPER AGE or can afford the very special tutoring for them, and that is why such enormously important topic is DISDAINED!!!]

http://www.ucimc.org/newswire/display/23674/index.php [IT WAS NOT slandering either Sandra, or her family. I gave the TRUTHFUL information about her insensitive to create the movement, which should benefit her (all right, it was not so terribly important to me), but simultaneously this movement is promoting CRIME activities, showing that inmates should have better treatment than regular law obedient people, and this movement should place the burden of additional payment on the shoulders of these obedient tax payers. I agree FULLY AND COMPLETELY with 'Confused and Puzzled' on these issues.
The information about Sandra’s family problem I received from the comment of 'Confused'. Maybe, it is the same person. I don't know, as there is a lot of people, who completely disagreed with a lot of IMC policies, but don't want to reveal their identities. I am an exception, and that is why I am terribly MISTREATED.
I don't think even a bit that I "slander" Sandra. Besides, your leading members were and are allowing themselves much worse treatment of me and/or my family (read my article Happy New Year...., and the thread of comments to it). Who , to the hell , gave them rights to do it, and have their comments maintained, which means that IMC is PROMOTING such kind of ideology as White Supremacy, etc..
I reveal the reason why she(Sandra) is promoting IDEOLOGICALLY WRONG activities.
This is the IDEOLOGICAL center for the young generation, you have the very serious responsibilities. And you have no rights to let your big phone bills, and/or your family problems in general impair your judgment of which cause you can promote and which you can't.. Sandra seems to forget it.
The victim here are YOUNG PEOPLE, who happen to read this site and to listen to your channels.]
Re: Anna and her rantings
Current rating: 0
02 Jul 2005
And these postings would be *exactly* the reason I voted the very day I received my ballot for WEFT's board of directors. She is disruptive, paranoid, and works on no facts whatsoever. I would be quite upset if she ever was in a position of power at WEFT.

By the way, when she refers to "S" in her comments, she's actually misreading my psuedonym. And I am most *definitely* not Sandra. I know her, like her, but am not her. Not that it matters in the slightest.
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
03 Jul 2005
Thanks for the information, La Ley. You've only scratched the surface, but it's more than enough to demonstrate that she is not competent to serve on WEFT's board of directors. I don't know why she was on the ballot.
Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
04 Jul 2005
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Re: Statement Of Clarification And Apology
Current rating: 0
27 Jul 2005
I agree that "consensed" isn't the loveliest word in the world. (That would be, depending on the circumstances, either "love," "yes," or "Pilsner-Urquell.") But it carries the procedural meaning of "agreed to by unanimous consensus" in a way no other word I know does, which is why I used it in the statement.

How about using "agreed to by unanimous consensus" instead, then? The "was consensed to" construct made me want to destroy something, and not in a good way.