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Announcement :: Protest Activity
Another World IS Possible! Current rating: 0
02 Jul 2004
Calling all Community Activists!
The AWARE Float is almost ready for the parade this Sunday the 4th of July!
You are invited to join us and march along side...... Another World Is Possible!
P6300080.jpg
The Anti-War Anti-Racism Effort (AWARE) invites you to march with us (if you don't already have a spot) along side our third annual Fourth of July parade float this Sunday July 4th at 12:30 pm

NE corner of Oregon and Goodwin.
AWARE is # 37.

Our community needs to see WHO the representatives are of protest against current government injustices.
Be a part of the spirit of the true patriot...and have a lot of fun!

Hope to see you there!
P6300081.jpg

This work is in the public domain.
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Re: Another World IS Possible!
Current rating: 0
03 Jul 2004
Great work, fellow patriots!

That's the spirit of '76! I saw a sign today that said "Thank you for our freedom," and I thought to myself they must have been talking to YOU!

Tom
Re: Another World IS Possible!
Current rating: 0
03 Jul 2004
I concur, Tom.

It's the people who are willing to stand up for their rights who are the true heirs of the American Revolution, not the pretenders who always say they're defending freedom ... just so they can take it away.

BJF
Re: Another World IS Possible!
Current rating: 0
03 Jul 2004
Why, BJF, you wouldn't be referin' to the USA PATRIOT Act, now would you?
Re: Another World IS Possible!
Current rating: 0
03 Jul 2004
Dear Tom,

FELLOW PATRIOTS??? Come on now. You people have know idea how to defend a nation You want me on that wall! You need me on that wall!

Please take every advantage of your right to protest, but don't think for a moment that the true patriots do not recoginize your true hatred of America and that for which it stands.

So you marched in a parade. Big Deal. The biggest thing your risked was exposure to skin cancer or possibly a blister. But please spare us the possibility that anything that was done today was courageous.

Jack
Re: Another World IS Possible!
Current rating: 0
03 Jul 2004
As a parent of three children, I attended the parade today. I wonder if your parents look out into the parade and see you marching with your float and wonder, "Where did I go wrong"?
Re: Another World IS Possible!
Current rating: 0
04 Jul 2004
Quite humorous to see people saying they attended the parade---ONE WHOLE DAY before the parade actually happened.

Perhaps reading comprehension classes are in order for these posters....
Re: Another World IS Possible!
Current rating: 0
04 Jul 2004
I was looking at this piece of art, and I was wondering why, when the new earth arises out of the ashes of the old, it is so much smaller. I would think that the ideal would be a bigger and better planet for all, not a smaller one. Does anyone know who made this and their explanation of their artwork?
Re: Another World IS Possible!
Current rating: 0
04 Jul 2004
Today the float looked fantastic and from the folks around me who had the audacity to boo you, I'm sure you had to endure a lot of ignorance.

Sometimes it's hard for folks to remember that you can support our troops by not wanting them to die for oil profits.
Re: Another World IS Possible!
Current rating: 0
04 Jul 2004
>"Sometimes it's hard for folks to remember that you can support our troops by not wanting them to die for oil profits."

No one is dying for oil, but some are dying to bring some form of freedom to the people in Iraq. Something brave American service men and women have been doing for a long, long, time. Reminds me of a song, notice especially the part that says,

"He has died for those oppressed"


Staff Sergeant Barry Sadler and Robin Moore, copyright 1966

Fighting soldiers from the sky
Fearless men who jump and die
Men who mean just what they say
The brave men of the Green Beret

Silver wings upon their chest
These are men, America's best
One hundred men will test today
But only three win the Green Beret

Trained to live off nature's land
Trained in combat, hand-to-hand
Men who fight by night and day
Courage peak from the Green Berets

Silver wings upon their chest
These are men, America's best
One hundred men will test today
But only three win the Green Beret

Back at home a young wife waits
Her Green Beret has met his fate
He has died for those oppressed
Leaving her his last request

Put silver wings on my son's chest
Make him one of America's best
He'll be a man they'll test one day
Have him win the Green Beret.


If you understand that song, it brings tears to the eyes. If you don't understand it, then you really do not understand America.
Re: Another World IS Possible!
Current rating: 0
04 Jul 2004
Yeah, there's tears in my eyes, all right. Tears from laughing so hard at that corny fuckin' poem. The day we bury nationalism of all forms is when we will truly have a new world.
Re: Another World IS Possible!
Current rating: 0
04 Jul 2004
Right on V-man! I think nationalism should go down in the DSM manual as a psychological disorder, with symptoms including myopia, xenophobia, anti-social behavior, and willingness to commit acts of violence against complete strangers, among others.
Re: Another World IS Possible!
Current rating: 0
04 Jul 2004
Vman,

Nationalism should never be confused with patriotism. Nationalism is a quest for power and influence, not for an individual, but for a group of people that one identifies with as a Nation. Patriotism is something else entirely, you need to learn the difference.

And, you obviously do not understand America, either...
Re: Another World IS Possible!
Current rating: 0
04 Jul 2004
Why can't the American Ideal be justice for all nations - why can't America help and defend other peoples and not just "jump and die" to be the best she can be ?? Hand to hand combat is what we should strive for??
Why not a better. more peaceful world with real liberty and real justice for ALL??
Re: Another World IS Possible!
Current rating: 0
04 Jul 2004

Thing is, the line between patriotism and nationalism (as you've made the distinction) is very fuzzy, and often very faint. As someone who spent a good part of my formative years in a country that took nationalism to the extent of invading other countries in order to "save" them and bring them all into a giant sphere of co-prosperity (which just happened to also serve the purpose of acquiring resources to keep the economy going, but hey), starving the populace in order to put all resources toward the army, with all this in the name of the national cause, plastering the flag and patriotic slogans all over every surface in sight, some of the flag-waving fervor I see in THIS country strikes me as rather disturbing.

That's not to say that I find all presentations of patriotism to be wrong, but I do wish that people had a greater sense that patriotism and national pride can be a very STRONG medicine, as it were, and that it really shouldn't be used so lightly.

Re: Another World IS Possible!
Current rating: 0
04 Jul 2004
True,

>"Why can't the American Ideal be justice for all nations..."

Maybe because we have a hard enough time here getting "justice" for all citizens? Seriously though, what do you purpose?


>"- why can't America help and defend other peoples and not just "jump and die" to be the best she can be ??"

Like we are helping and defending innocent people in Iraq you mean?


>"Hand to hand combat is what we should strive for??"

When necessary. Freedom has a cost, we either must pay the cost, or be someone elses slaves. You don't want to be someone elses slave do you?


>"Why not a better. more peaceful world with real liberty and real justice for ALL??"

Do you think the entire world WANTS our idea of "freedom and justice"? And as for "peace", there will never be peace...history proves that beyond any doubt doesn't it?



Mink,

>"Thing is, the line between patriotism and nationalism (as you've made the distinction) is very fuzzy, and often very faint."

Maybe, but I really didn't try to define patriotism at all. Let's try it this way, Nationalism is basically an calculated agenda, while patriotism can only come from the heart. That makes the distinction between heart and mind maybe.

It seems like many people still have this idea that if the whole world would just join hands and sing "we are the world" that peace would break out all over and everyone would live in peace and harmony. It's the same old pipe dream that played in the minds of the flower children in the 60's. It's not a viable goal, and it will never happen. One big mistake people make is in thinking that the rest of the world thinks like we do, values the same things that we do, and reasons things in their minds like we do...well, they don't. Their cultures are just plain different, and all the feelgoodism in the world isn't going to bring peace to this earth. So, what shall we do?
Re: Another World IS Possible!
Current rating: 0
05 Jul 2004
Quoting NRA4Freedom:
"I was looking at this piece of art, and I was wondering why, when the new earth arises out of the ashes of the old, it is so much smaller. I would think that the ideal would be a bigger and better planet for all, not a smaller one. Does anyone know who made this and their explanation of their artwork? "

Because you and your Walmartian friends weren't invited to spread your bullet casing, crap hoarding, landfill engorged shit factories all over the place. It's a lot smaller without your cheap plastic crap impregnating the surface of the earth.

Thanks to JK,DK,MK, Grandpa and all the wonderful folks I met yesterday for a great time. You're beautiful; I'll play for ya any time :)
Re: Another World IS Possible!
Current rating: 0
05 Jul 2004
>"Because you and your Walmartian friends..."

I don't shop at Walmart if I can help it.


>"weren't invited to spread your bullet casing"

You got something against brass?


>"crap hoarding"

?


>"landfill engorged shit factories all over the place."

What on earth are you talking about?


>"It's a lot smaller without your cheap plastic crap impregnating the surface of the earth."

I hate "plastic crap", it's the ruination of the world. Make it metal, or don't make it at all.
Re: Another World IS Possible!
Current rating: 0
06 Jul 2004
How about a world in which lefties and righties can agree to disagree without attacking one another in a kneejerk fashion? Think about how this very website represents a wonderful venue for exchange of vital ideas and a virtual meeting place for all sorts of divergent viewpoints. Without some degree of mutual respect, it just polarizes us into attack and counter-attack. How goddamn boring is that?
Re: Another World IS Possible!
Current rating: 0
06 Jul 2004
Progressives are not the ones trying to impose our idea of freedom and justtice on other countries like Iraq. We are defending the "innocent people of Iraq" by killing thousands of them and torturing and humiliating them in Saddam's old prison?
The U.S. invades a soverign nation that posed no threat to us because Saddam was no longer as willing a puppet as he used to be - kill and maim thousands of innocent Iraqis, trash the country, allow ancient manuscripts of civilization to be destroyed and then help to install a new pro-US "governing council" with old Baathist party and CIA associated heads and this is helping the "innocent Iraqi people"???
No I don't think the whole world wants our idea of "freedom" but then why do we insist on shoving it down their throats?
Justice however is justice anywhere. To do the morally right thing is not that difficult to figure out.
Freedom apparently is not free but most of the places the US has gone for most of its history have not been to bring freedom to other places but to exploit and use them and their resources for corporate gain and power.
Check out some of Howard Zinn or James Loewen's writings to see the real story of how the US military has been used.
For that matter you can even check out a book called "Flyboys" by one James Bradley
to get some idea that the "American way" is not always the right way.
Re: Another World IS Possible!
Current rating: 0
06 Jul 2004
True,

>"Progressives are not the ones trying to impose our idea of freedom and justtice on other countries like Iraq."

Ok, that's agreed. I am also not real certain that "our idea of freedom" is truly what is happening in Iraq either. It certainly doesn't sound like they have anything like freedom of religion there, or plan to anytime soon.


>"We are defending the "innocent people of Iraq" by killing thousands of them and torturing and humiliating them in Saddam's old prison?"

You can only assume that they are "innocent". You have no idea whether they are, or are not. Chances are some of them are, and chances are that many of them would just as soon murder you and your infidel family as look at you. Why are you so worried about supposedly "innocent Iraqis" that you don't really know are "innocent" but you have no concern for the "innocent unborn"?


>"The U.S. invades a soverign nation that posed no threat to us..."

Again, you are speaking of things you do not know. We are not privy to top secret information, and neither is the news media. Russia obviously informed us that they were a threat. In fact, isn't it interesting that, when ponded on by the liberal news media, Bush never spilled the beans on the intelligence information that we received from the Russians. It took them to spill the beans about it. How much more information are we just able to know about it all...


>"...because Saddam was no longer as willing a puppet as he used to be"

He turned into a tyrant, period.


>"- kill and maim thousands of innocent Iraqis"

That's what happens in war unfortunately.


>"...trash the country..."

Frankly, I have a relative that has returned from there recently, and he would say that you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. The VAST majority of the people in that Country are better off now than they were a year or two or three ago. Don't make the mistake of believing only the bad news you hear from the liberal press, there is much more good news that never gets reported. The reason is perception. Most news media wants to hurt Bush, so they focus on the problems, rather than the good that is happening. They are traitors.


>"...allow ancient manuscripts of civilization to be destroyed..."

Whatever! I'm sure you were real concerned about all the "ancient" Mesopotamia stuff and what might happen to it while Saddam was in power! Like you even KNEW anything about it at all...Spare me! And, did WE destroy it? No, looters did it. Most turned up from what I heard, and the rest will turn up for sale eventually because it is worth money. Big deal...


>"and then help to install a new pro-US "governing council" with old Baathist party and CIA associated heads and this is helping the "innocent Iraqi people"???"

ANYTHING is better than Saddam at this point for those people. But not to worry, over the years maybe the Muslim religious leaders might gain control and turn the whole place into a dump like Iran is. Where women are but one step above dogs in worth...that's what you want isn't it?


>"No I don't think the whole world wants our idea of "freedom" but then why do we insist on shoving it down their throats?"

Most of the "whole world" wants to live in America. Because America is head and shoulders above anything any other Country has to offer average people. You should go live in some of these other Countries for a while, and find out just how truly fortunate you really were to have been born here instead of someplace else.

But, what would you have purposed in the wake of removing Saddam from power...for us to just walk away and let people starve and die in the desert? Do you have a better plan than what the U.S. is doing now?


>"Justice however is justice anywhere."

Not true! Thieves in Muslim lands get their hands cut off, women who get caught(or even accused in some cases) in adultery are killed..."justice'?


>"To do the morally right thing is not that difficult to figure out."

Must be "difficult", we have certainly murdered a lot of unborn children over the years, and no one can to this day agree on the "morally right thing". Interesting that Kerry has now stated that life begins at conception...he just pointed the the finger at pro abortionists everywhere and yelled "MURDERER"! But they will still flock to the polls to vote for him...interesting.


>"Freedom apparently is not free but most of the places the US has gone for most of its history have not been to bring freedom to other places but to exploit and use them and their resources for corporate gain and power."

Sounds good, but I do not believe that is the case. Most of where the U.S. is happens to be either because of world wars, or because we have allies there who need and want us there. Perhaps you can cite some specific examples?


>"Check out some of Howard Zinn or James Loewen's writings to see the real story of how the US military has been used.
For that matter you can even check out a book called "Flyboys" by one James Bradley
to get some idea that the "American way" is not always the right way."

I agree, it may not ALWAYS be "the right way", but in virtually all cases, it is a darn site better than what went on before. America is NOT the cause of suffering for the vast majority of peoples on this earth. In fact, statistically speaking, America probably is very low on that list. That doesn't make everything we do through U.S. policy "right", but America certainly is NOT the oppressor of people on this earth.
Re: Another World IS Possible!
Current rating: 0
07 Jul 2004
Well I guess you (NRA4Freedom) know exactly what I think and what I support and my views on abortion and just about everything else so there is really no reason to continue this dialogue. I notice you did not say you were willing to read or had read any of the authors I suggested, I guess that is because you already know everything.
Re: Another World IS Possible!
Current rating: 0
08 Jul 2004
TRUE,

Actually, I did a web search on the people you mentioned and read a little of the stuff to get some idea where you were coming from. Off hand, they strike me as a little conspiracy theorist minded, though in this day and age there might be more truth to that thinking than in years gone by.

One thing I do know is that I am not certain I understand "Progressives" as you may be defining the concept. This land was built on the foundations of Freedom and Liberty. Neither major political party truly and fully represents either of those ideals. So it becomes just a choice of the lesser of two evils for most Americans who truly value them. "Progressives" are something else entirely it appears, so what is your take on how the ideals of Progressive-ism stack up against the Freedom and Liberty on which this Nation is based, and how does that differ from the ideals of the currently controlled Democratic Party...I'd like to hear that.