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News :: Iraq |
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Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
Current rating: 0 |
by Sascha Meinrath
Email: sascha (nospam) ucimc.org (unverified!) |
07 Apr 2004
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While the mainstream press continues to claim that the U.S. citizens killed in Iraq were "civilians" -- their company was actually hired to protect Paul Bremer, the U.S. administrator in Iraq. Why the imporant fact that they were hired as mercenaries is being obfuscated by U.S. press remains an open question. However, as the situation in Iraq continues to deteriorate, the continuing misinformation being reported to the American people raises serious concerns about the dominant press' persistent failure to report important information to the general public. |
On Wednesday, March 31, 2004 four U.S. citizens were killed in Iraq: Scott Helvenston, 38, a Navy veteran; Jerko "Jerry" Zovko, 32, and Michael Teague, 38, all Army veterans; and Wesley Batalona, 48, a former Army Ranger. The mainstream press reported these four men to be "civilians" however, this oversimplification of their roles in Iraq is greatly misleading to the public.
All four men were hired through Blackwell Security Consulting. Blackwell provides, "Mobile Security Teams" that "are comprised of former operators primarily from the ranks of the US special operations and intelligence communities. Blackwater Mobile Security Teams stand ready to be deployed around the world with little notice in support of US national security objectives, private or foreign interests." Blackwell Security Consulting provides armed personnel for hire around the world -- positions colloquially known as "mercenaries."
According to Blackwell Security Consulting assistant training director Chris Epperson, the company provides protection to Paul Bremer, the U.S. administrator in Iraq. As "hired guns" armed to protect military personnel, these four men's jobs put them directly in harm's way in their role to "support US national security objectives." However, this information continues to be downplayed or ignored in almost all press accounts. |
See also:
http://blackwatersecurity.com/services.html
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/Iraq/2004/03/31/403529-ap.html
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This work is in the public domain. |
Comments
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by David Garcia
garciaarkansasimc (nospam) spymac.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 5
07 Apr 2004
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Good story , Sascha. We've even got these kind of mercenaries, disguised as "consultants" in Arkansas. Check out the story at: http://arkansas.indymedia.org/feature/display/3257/index.php |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by Judith Dixon
djdixon48 (nospam) msn.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 15
07 Apr 2004
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Thank you for your article. The "civilian contractor" thing has had me really angry for days. They were being paid $1000.00 a day. That makes them hired killers, as slimy as any mafia hitman. I feel sorry for their families, but not for them |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by John Sweeney
stormd (nospam) subversatile.net (unverified) |
Current rating: 5
07 Apr 2004
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And what THIS article fails to report is that these men, whatever their job, were cruelly and barbarically mutilated, and their bodies desecrated, an unacceptable practice by any sane, civilized standard. Even if their role in Iraq put them in harms way, they didn't deserve to be rended limb from limb, or strung up from a bridge. Nobody does. I'm sure you'd be quick to denounce American forces if they engaged in this sort of sadistic revelry, no matter how hostile or dangerous the "victims" of said barbarism were. Why then the apparent sympathy for Iraqi brutality when the roles are reversed? |
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Exactly |
by bfd
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 1
07 Apr 2004
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How interesting that the practical radio-silence on this web site is only broken by the chance to belittle the deaths and mutilations of four of my countrymen. This is all part of your quest for human understanding and tolerance, I'm sure.
Just keep talking. Your hatred reveals itself at every turn. |
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Where Are the Pictures of Mutilated Civilians? |
by ML
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 48
07 Apr 2004
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Just a note for Mr. Sweeny.
I have yet to see the U.S. mass media pay close attention to the thousands of civilians who have been "cruelly and barbarically mutilated, and their bodies desecrated, an unacceptable practice by any sane, civilized standard." In fact, when our bombs kill innocents, it isn't even worth counting them, according to the Pentagon. Yet when this happens to some mercenaries, it is like some great moral code has been broken.
Civilians killed, mutliated?
"Sorry, but they were just collateral damage and we didn't mean it"
Dead mercenaries multilated?
"Oh, the horror. Those people are so uncivilized."
Sorry, I don't buy your double-standard, Sweeny. Nobody is saying what happened is right or justifiable. But we sure aren't convinced that saying it about those US forces kill and mutilate is very moral either. You may be comfortable with such hypocrisy. I am not. |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by E Miesner
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 6
07 Apr 2004
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What puzzles me is that if they were supposed to be garding the haed stooge what were they doing in the downtown of a city that was not even under US control. It sounds like they were more of a hit squad or something. |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by jd
descj001 (nospam) msn.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 8
07 Apr 2004
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At nytimes.com, search for 'blackwater'. 3 of the 8 results are:
'Modern mercenaries on the Iraqi frontier'
'Need an army? just pick up the phone'
'private U.S. guards take big risk for the right price'
Same search at Time.com. 1 of the 3 headlines that results:
'When private armies take to the front lines'
Same search at cnn.com:
'Blackwater aids military with armed support'
'High risks and pay for contractors in Iraq'
Nobody is hiding the fact that these guys weren't pacifists.
Liberals claim the media is controlled by corporate/right wing interests. The right wing complains about the 'liberal agenda' in mainstream media.
It's a matter of perspective. But, I'd hope you guys would at least read the mainstream media you constantly attack, before creating baseless 'scoops' such as this. It really reduces the credibility you need when you raise legitimate issues. |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by Zinfandel
monkeywg (nospam) nospamhotmail.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 46
07 Apr 2004
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JD, the suggestion that because doing a web search for 'blackwater' givies three results pertaining to mercinaries means that the victims' true role was reported in the mainstream media is ludicrous. Blackwater wasn't ever mentioned in the mainstream media in reference to this incident. So how could any independent mind make the connection - let alone the average zombie tuned into his TeeVee.
Incidentally, tonight, the BBC described the dead mercenaries as 'engineers'. It was, I suspect, always intended that the term 'civilian security contractors' should invoke images of men in overalls installing alarm systems.
To other commentators who suggest that American forces wouldn't partake in such barbarism, you obviously don't pay much attention to what is going on. PTSD veterans from the first Gulf War reported that their colleagues would frequently take trips to the so-called 'Road of Death' from Basra to be photographed defiling the corpses of dead Iraqi soldiers. Michael Herr wrote of many such atrocities in his book 'Despaches' including soldiers pissing in the mouths of decapitated heads. British soldiers are being investigated for sexually abusing Iraqi prisoners in the current theatre of war (what a great term for this work of fiction).
It is unlikely that the authorities are going to go mainstream with reports of their elite forces going Colonel Kurtz, wouldn't you say! Wouldn't win many elections either.
Patriotism on this level is beyond words.
As far as why they were in the wrong place at the wrong time, word on the Fallujah street is they were sacrificed in order to trigger the current ongoing bloodbath and hence justify revoking the provosed withdrawl of up to 10% of US forces and instead sending formidable reinforcements.
They were mercenaries. Dogs of war. They were paid to kill and died unpleasantly doing so. As one of you beloved American TeeVee personalities put it to grieving families of dead US soldiers, get over it. |
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International Convention against the Recruitment, Use, Financing and Training of Mercenaries, 4 December 1989 |
by UN via the Swiss & Little Willie
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 6
07 Apr 2004
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International Convention against the Recruitment, Use, Financing and Training of Mercenaries, 4 December 1989
The States Parties to the present Convention,
Reaffirming the purposes and principles enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations and in the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations,
Being aware of the recruitment, use, financing and training of mercenaries for activities which violate principles of international law, such as those of sovereign equality, political independence, territorial integrity of States and self-determination of peoples,
Affirming that the recruitment, use, financing and training of mercenaries should be considered as offences of grave concern to all States and that any person committing any of these-offences should be either prosecuted or extradited,
Convinced of the necessity to develop and enhance international co-operation among States for the prevention, prosecution and punishment of such offences,
Expressing concern at new unlawful international activities linking drug traffickers and mercenaries in the perpetration of violent actions which undermine the constitutional order of States,
Also convinced that the adoption of a convention against the recruitment, use, financing and training of mercenaries would contribute to the eradication of these nefarious activities and thereby to the observance of the purposes and principles enshrined in the Charter,
Cognizant that matters not regulated by such a convention continue to be governed by the rules and principles of international law,
Have agreed as follows :
Art. 1
For the purposes of the present Convention,
1. A mercenary is any person who:
(a) Is specially recruited locally or abroad in order to fight in an armed conflict;
(b) Is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar rank and functions in the armed forces of that party;
(c) Is neither a national of a party to the conflict nor a resident of territory controlled by a party to the conflict;
(d) Is not a member of the armed forces of a party to the conflict; and
(e) Has not been sent by a State which is not a party to the conflict on official duty as a member of its armed forces.
2. A mercenary is also any person who, in any other situation:
(a) Is specially recruited locally or abroad for the purpose of participating in a concerted act of violence
aimed at :
(i) Overthrowing a Government or otherwise undermining the constitutional order of a State; or
(ii) Undermining the territorial integrity of a State;
(b) Is motivated to take part therein essentially by the desire for significant private gain and is prompted by the promise or payment of material compensation;
(c) Is neither a national nor a resident of the State against which such an act is directed;
(d) Has not been sent by a State on official duty; and
(e) Is not a member of the armed forces of the State on whose territory the act is undertaken.
Art. 2
Any person who recruits, uses, finances or trains mercenaries, as defined in article 1 of the present Convention, commits an offence for the purposes of the Convention.
Art. 3
1. A mercenary, as defined in article 1 of the present Convention, who participates directly in hostilities or in a concerted act of violence, as the case may be, commits an offence for the purposes of the Convention.
2. Nothing in this article limits the scope of application of article 4 of the present Convention.
Art. 4
An offence is committed by any person who:
(a) Attempts to commit one of the offences set forth in the present Convention;
(b) Is the accomplice of a person who commits or attempts to commit any of the offences set forth in the present Convention.
Art. 5
1. States Parties shall note recruit, use, finance or train mercenaries and shall prohibit such activities in accordance with the provisions of the present Convention.
2. States Parties shall not recruit, use, finance or train mercenaries for the purpose of opposing the legitimate exercise of the inalienable right of peoples to self-determination, as recognized by international law, and shall take, in conformity with international law, the appropriate measures to prevent the recruitment, use, financing or training of mercenaries for that purpose.
3. They shall make the offences set forth in the present Convention punishable by appropriate penalties which take into account the grave nature of those offences.
Art. 6
States Parties shall co-operate in the prevention of the offences set forth in the present Convention, particularly
by :
(a) Taking all practicable measures to prevent preparations in their respective territories for the commission of those offences within or outside their territories, including the prohibition of illegal activities of persons, groups and organizations that encourage, instigate, organize or engage in the perpetration of such offences;
(b) Co-ordinating the taking of administrative and other measures as appropriate to prevent the commission of those offences.
Art. 7
States Parties shall co-operate in taking the necessary measures for the implementation of the present Convention.
Art. 8
Any State Party having reason to believe that one of the offences set forth in the present Convention has been, is being or will be committed shall, in accordance with its national law, communicate the relevant information, as soon as it comes to its knowledge, directly or through the Secretary-General of the United Nations, to the States Parties affected.
Art. 9
1. Each State Party shall take such measures as may be necessary to establish its jurisdiction over any of the offences set forth in the present Convention which are
committed :
(a) In its territory or on board a ship or aircraft registered in that State;
(b) By any of its nationals or, if that State considers it appropriate, by those stateless persons who have their habitual residence in that territory.
2. Each State Party shall likewise take such measures as may be necessary to establish its jurisdiction over the offences set forth in articles 2, 3 and 4 of the present Convention in cases where the alleged offender is present in its territory and it does note extradite him to any of the States mentioned in paragraph 1 of this article.
3. The present Convention does not exclude any criminal jurisdiction exercised in accordance with national law.
Art. 10
1. Upon being satisfied that the circumstances so warrant, any State Party in whose territory the alleged offender is present shall, in accordance with its laws, take him into custody or take such other measures to ensure his presence for such time as is necessary to enable any criminal or extradition proceedings to be instituted. The State Party shall immediately make a preliminary inquiry into the facts.
2. When a State Party, pursuant to this article, has taken a person into custody or has taken such other measures referred to in paragraph 1 of this article, it shall notify without delay either directly or through the
Secretary-General of the United Nations:
(a) The State Party where the offence was committed;
(b) The State Party against which the offence has been directed or attempted;
(c) The State Party of which the natural or juridical person against whom the offence has been directed or attempted is a national;
(d) The State Party of which the alleged offender is a national or, if he is a stateless person, in whose territory he has his habitual residence;
(e) Any other interested State Party which it considers it appropriate to notify.
3. Any person regarding whom the measures referred to in paragraph 1 of this article are being taken shall be
entitled:
(a) To communicate without delay with the nearest appropriate representative of the State of which he is a national or which is otherwise entitled to protect his rights or, if he is a stateless person, the State in whose territory he has his habitual residence;
(b) To be visited by a representative of that State.
4. The provisions of paragraph 3 of this article shall be without prejudice to the right of any State Party having a claim to jurisdiction in accordance with article 9, paragraph 1 (b), to invite the International Committee of the Red Cross to communicate with and visit the alleged offender.
5. The State which makes the preliminary inquiry contemplated in paragraph 1 of this article shall promptly report its findings to the States referred to in paragraph 2 of this article and indicate whether it intends to exercise jurisdiction.
Art. 11
Any person regarding whom proceedings are being carried out in connection with any of the offences set forth in the present Convention shall be guaranteed at all stages of the proceedings fair treatment and all the rights and guarantees provided for in the law of the State in question. Applicable norms of international law should be taken into account.
Art. 12
The State Party in whose territory the alleged offender is found shall, if it does not extradite him, be obliged, without exception whatsoever and whether or not the offence was committed in its territory, to submit the case to its competent authorities for the purpose of prosecution through proceedings in accordance with the laws of that State. Those authorities shall take their decision in the same manner as in the case of any other offence of a grave nature under the law of that State.
Art. 13
1. States Parties shall afford one another the greatest measure of assistance in connection with criminal proceedings brought in respect of the offences set forth in the present Convention, including the supply of all evidence at their disposal necessary for the proceedings. The law of the State whose assistance is requested shall apply in all cases.
2. The provisions of paragraph 1 of this article shall not affect obligations concerning mutual judicial assistance embodied in any other treaty.
Art. 14
The State Party where the alleged offender is prosecuted shall in accordance with its laws communicate the final outcome of the proceedings to the Secretary-General of the United Nations, who shall transmit the information to the other States concerned.
Art. 15
1. The offences set forth in articles 2,3 and 4 of the present Convention shall be deemed to be included as extraditable offences in any extradition treaty existing between States Parties. States Parties undertake to include such offences as extraditable offences in every extradition treaty to be concluded between them.
2. If a State Party which makes extradition conditional on the existence of a treaty receives a request for extradition from another State Party with which it has no extradition treaty, it may at its option consider the present Convention as the legal basis for extradition in respect of those offences. Extradition shall be subject to the other conditions provided by the law of the requested State.
3. States Parties which do not make extradition conditional on the existence of a treaty shall recognize those offences as extraditable offences between themselves, subject to the conditions provided by the law of the requested State.
4. The offences shall be treated, for the purpose of extradition between States Parties, as if they had been committed not only in the place in which they occurred but also in the territories of the State required to establish their jurisdiction in accordance with article 9 of the present Convention.
Art. 16
The present Convention shall be applied without prejudice to:
(a) The rules relating to the international responsibility of States;
(b) The law of armed conflict and international humanitarian law, including the provisions relating to the status of combatant or of prisoner of war.
Art. 17
1. Any dispute between two or more States Parties concerning the interpretation or application of the present Convention which is not settled by negotiation shall, at the request of one of them, be submitted to arbitration. If, within six months from the date of the request for arbitration, the parties are unable to agree on the organization of the arbitration, any one of those parties may refer the dispute to the International Court of Justice by a request in conformity with the Statute of the Court.
2. Each State may, at the time of signature or ratification of the present Convention or accession thereto, declare that it does not consider itself bound by paragraph 1 of this article. The other States Parties shall not be bound by paragraph 1 of this article with respect to any State party which has made such a reservation.
3. Any State Party which has made a reservation in accordance with paragraph 2 of this article may at any time withdraw that reservation by notification to the Secretary-General of the United Nations.
Art. 18
1. The present Convention shall be open for signature by all States until 31 December 1990 at United Nations Headquarters in New York.
2. The present Convention shall be subject to ratification. The instruments of ratification shall be deposited with the Secretary-General of the United Nations.
3. The present Convention shall remain open for accession by any State. The instruments of accession shall be deposited with the Secretary-General of the United Nations.
Art. 19
1. The present Convention shall enter into force on the thirtieth day following the date of deposit of the twenty-second instrument of ratification or accession with the Secretary-General of the United Nations.
2. For each State ratifying or acceding to the Convention after the deposit of the twenty-second instrument of ratification or accession, the Convention shall enter into force on the thirtieth day after deposit by such State of its instrument of ratification or accession.
Art. 20
1. Any State Party may denounce the present Convention by written notification to the Secretary-General of the United Nations.
2. Denunciation shall take effect one year after the date on which the notification is received by the Secretary-General of the United Nations.
Art. 21
The original of the present Convention, of which the Arabic, Chinese, English, French, Russian and Spanish texts are equally authentic, shall be deposited with the Secretary-General of the United Nations, who shall send certified copies thereof to all States.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF the undersigned, being duly authorized thereto by their respective Governments, have signed the present Convention.
Wikipedia Links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercenary
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_combatant |
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Arrest Warrant for Sadr in Khoei Murder: CIA Involvement |
by Little Willie
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 7
07 Apr 2004
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Another place where the dominant media has been very coy and less than honest about terminology is the arrest warrant that has been issued for Shiite leader Moktada al-Sadr and the reasons behind it. The person killed was Abdul Majid al-Khoei, who is reported to have acted as a conduit for $13 million in CIA money.
There has been no hard evidence of al-Sadr's involvement in the murder, but it is pretty naive to think that al-Sadr should just surrender to US forces in order "to calm the situation" as US military leaders have been urging him to do. Under the circumstances, probably with a bounty on his head for supposedly killing a CIA agent, the man would have to be a fool to surrender to the kangaroo courts of the Bush Adminstration.
It is especially hypocritical for the CIA to apparently be pushing to have the rule of law protect its lawless activities. Spies get wacked -- it's part of the devil's bargain. If youse don't want to wake up with the horse's head in your bed, don't join the mob. |
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Vive la mort, vive la guerre, vive le sacre mercenaire |
by sabate
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 5
08 Apr 2004
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* " Long live death, long live war, long live the cursed mercenary ".
- Mercenary marching cadence and toast
Mercenaries 'R' Us
By Bill Berkowitz, AlterNet
March 24, 2004
With the casualty toll ticking ever upward and troops stretched thin on the ground, the Bush administration is looking to mercenaries to help control Iraq. These soldiers-for-hire are veterans of some of the most repressive military forces in the world, including that of the former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet and South Africa's apartheid regime.
In February, Blackwater USA, a North Carolina-based Pentagon contractor, began hiring former combat personnel in Chile, offering them up to $4,000 a month to guard oil wells in Iraq. The company flew the first batch of 60 former commandos to a training camp in North Carolina. These recruits will eventually wind up in Iraq where they will spend six months to a year.
"We scour the ends of the earth to find professionals – the Chilean commandos are very, very professional and they fit within the Blackwater system," Gary Jackson, the president of Blackwater USA, told the Guardian.
While Blackwater USA is not nearly as well known as Halliburton or Bechtel – two mega-corporations making a killing off the reconstruction of Iraq – it nevertheless is doing quite well financially thanks to the White House's war on terror. The company specializes in firearm, tactics and security training and in October 2003, according to Mother Jones magazine, the company won a $35.7 million contract to train more than 10,000 sailors from Virginia, Texas, and California each year in 'force protection.'
Business has been booming for Blackwater, which now owns, as its press release boasts, "the largest privately-owned firearms training facility in the nation." Jackson told the Guardian, "We have grown 300 percent over each of the past three years and we are small compared to the big ones. We have a very small niche market, we work towards putting out the cream of the crop, the best."
The practice of using mercenaries to fight wars is hardly new, but it is becoming increasingly popular in recent years. During the first Gulf War, one out of every 50 soldiers on the battlefield was a mercenary. The number had climbed up to one in ten during the Bosnian conflict. Currently there are thousands of Bosnian, Filipino and American soldiers under contract with private companies serving in Iraq. Their duties range from airport security to protecting Paul Bremer, the head of the Coalition Provisional Authority.
Apart from Chile, the other popular source for military recruits is South Africa. The United Nations recently reported that South Africa "is already among the top three suppliers of personnel for private military companies, along with the UK and the US." There are more than 1,500 South Africans in Iraq today, most of whom are former members of the South African Defense Force and South African Police.
According to the Cape Times, among the South African companies under contract with the Pentagon are Meteoric Tactical Solutions, which "is providing protection and is also training new Iraqi police and security units," and Erinys, a joint South African-British company, which "has received a multimillion-dollar contract to protect Iraq's oil industry," the Cape Times reported.
The recruitment of its citizens, however, isn't making either the Chilean or the South African governments happy. The Regulation of Foreign Military Assistance Act prohibits South African citizens from direct participation as a combatant in armed conflict for private gain. Michelle Bachelet, Chile's defense minister, has ordered an investigation into whether such recruitment is legal under Chilean laws. Bachelet also was troubled by stories that soldiers on active duty are leaving the company to sign up as mercenaries.
It is also only a matter of time before U.S. soldiers grow unhappy with the presence of mercenaries in their midst. The high salaries and shorter terms of employment offered to mercenaries will inevitably make a serious dent on the military's budget. As Blackwater's Jackson acknowledged in the Guardian, "If they are going to outsource tasks that were once held by active-duty military and are now using private contractors, those guys [on active duty] are looking and asking, 'Where is the money?'"
Raenette Taljaard, a member of the South African Parliament, describes the ubiquitous reach of this "booming cottage industry" of private security companies:
"In addition to becoming an integral part of the machinery of war, they are emerging as cogs in the infrastructure of peace. US-allied military officials and civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan are quickly becoming familiar with the 'brand services' provided by companies."
In the era of globalization, war has become just another industry to be outsourced. |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by me
me (nospam) me (unverified) |
Current rating: 2
08 Apr 2004
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I am amazed by this thread. The fact that the Blackwater guys are mercenaries has been widely disseminated in mainstream media. some people here have the attitude: If I ddin't read it, it wasn't written. As always, the rating system is astonishing -- the guy who wrote that NYT, Time and CNN have written stories -- a factual post -- gets a -3, while the next poster, who choses not to go to the cited media and deny they ever wrote about Blackwater, gets an 8 rating.
Be intellectually honest. If you're wrong, admit it. |
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If you're going to mock the dead... |
by bfd
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 2
08 Apr 2004
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...at least have the decency to refer to them in an accurate manner. "Bodyguard", "executive protection" or "security" might be more appropriate that "mercenary" or "hired guns", and sure as hell better than "mafia hitmen". And while I'm sure that these men would agree that their jobs (and their prior military service) knowingly placed them in harms way, I'll bet you wouldn't be so flippant about the loss of their lives in the presence of their families, and I'm certain you wouldn't do so in the presence of their colleagues. But I understand that little subtleties like these are usually lost on "peace" lovers like you, you piece of human garbage. |
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Nobody Is Mocking the Dead |
by ML
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 17
08 Apr 2004
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bfd,
I see nothing in the article that "mocks the dead." There is a great deal of info about the selective use of images of mutilated corpses in this thread. This only seems to count to you if they are Americans. Such inconvenient truths as are being presented here are not mocking the dead, but putting their deaths in the wider context of war as brutality.
This is your one and only warning to stick to on-topic discussions. Any more comments of the nature of "you piece of human garbage" will see your comment sent to the Hidden Files.
Comments such as that one also seem to reflect exactly the kind of treatment that occurred to the mercenaries' bodies. I see little difference in attitude between your comment and the mindset of those who mutilated the bodies. However, you are allowed to be a hypocrite, just not in an abusive manner toward other posters. |
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I am nearly at a loss for words |
by bfd
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 5
08 Apr 2004
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v. mocked, mock·ing, mocks
v. tr.
To treat with ridicule or contempt; deride.
It was in this manner that the deaths of the four Americans were described, who were later incorrectly identified with contempt as "mercenaries", "hired guns", and later, "mafia hitmen".
And MY remarks illistrate "little difference in attitude between your comment and the mindset of those who mutilated the bodies"? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Your moral relativism truly sickens me.
But hey, if your own hypocricy gets to be too much for you to handle too, just go ahead and hit that delete button, kommissar. It's easier to hide your shame that way than to have to confront your cobbled-together system of pseudo-politics. |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by Zinfandel
monkeywg (nospam) nospam.hotmail.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 8
08 Apr 2004
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Hey, BFD, they were mercenaries, what's your problem?
Sorry if you don't like the idea but that's what they were. Unlike the poor Japanese bastards who are curretly kidnapped who were there to monitor the depleted uranium that the coalition forces have been raining down on them. |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by DLi
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 15
08 Apr 2004
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The 4 Americans killed must be classified as, armed "illegal combatants" performing guard duty for an Occupation Army.
In fact, it's highly questionable whether those 4 should/would be protected under the Geneva Convention, since they wore no uniforms and apparently entered Iraqi territory without any visa or authorization even under the puppet Iraqi "Governing Council"! |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by jm
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 5
08 Apr 2004
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Using that train of thought the rebels who are camped inside the Mosque also do not fall under the Geneva convention as they are not a part of any army backed by the Iraqi government. The Geneva convention covers all combatants and civilians (which these 4 were because they were not in the military). Their treatment post mortum was a violation of the Geneva convention.
Of course, since they are American we can overlook that. |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by Mink!
mink (nospam) tcp.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 19
08 Apr 2004
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A coupla comments:
- The four Blackwater guys were mercenaries. There is a definition of the term, and they fit it. Judgements as to the propriety of hiring mercenaries are another whole thing. However, it should be pointed out that they are by no means alone - the British are hiring security too, including forces from Nepal.
- I believe I read that the 4 were running security for a food/supply transport when they were murdered, but not sure about that.
- Stories mentioning Blackwater mention the roles of the 4. Early stories mentioned Blackwater (some only talked about a "private security company" but they did discuss the role). It is in the later stories that the reference tended to morph to the generic "civilians."
- Similarly, early stories about the "rival cleric" that Sadr allegedly killed last year were candid about the fact that he was another exile parachuted in from Britain in an attempt to move the Shiite clergy into a more pro-American stance. Later stories are only referring to him as "a rival cleric" with no backstory.
I am not condoning any deaths, here. However, I'd like to point out that when we're talking murder, of either the government funded or the mundane personal sort, having a good grasp of the identity, status, and relationships of both murderer and victim go a long way toward ascertaining MOTIVE, which is by no means an insignificant detail.
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by a native American
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: -1
09 Apr 2004
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How does threatening to burn 3 Japanese alive unless the Japanese withdraw from Iraq rank? I think some people need to rethink who the 'bad guys' in this insurrection really are. They mutilate 4 Americans and now want to burn 3 Japanese alive..... |
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For ThoseObsessed with "Getting Even" |
by little willie
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 3
09 Apr 2004
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http://www.indybay.org/news/2004/04/1676692.php
Yeah, the US is composed of nothing but guys in white hats, morally superior to their enemy, and who have done nothing to provoke any violence against them....yeah, right. |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by a native American
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 2
09 Apr 2004
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I think the point that is being made is that not all bad guys are Americans. Instead of seeing black and white in the international issues maybe some grey exists. |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by Sascha Meinrath
sascha (nospam) ucimc.org (unverified) |
Current rating: 3
09 Apr 2004
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facinating discussion -- i just wanted to add a few pieces of information to the discussion. one of the major problems bringing "private security services" into an occupation scenario is that they are perceived, by those on the ground, as legitimate targets.
today's new york times reported, "Last weekend, eight Blackwater contractors assigned to protect a building in Najaf fought alongside four marines and three Salvadoran soldiers to defeat a determined attack by hundreds of Iraqi militia members. The men fired thousands of rounds, yet were very nearly overrun, Mr. Toohey said. "They were down to single digits of ammo, less than 10 rounds a man."
Desperate and unable to communicate directly with military commanders, the eight Blackwater contractors instead called in help from Blackwater employees, he said. With approval from Mr. Bremer's staff, three Blackwater helicopters — the same ones used to ferry Mr. Bremer around Iraq — were dispatched to the Najaf battle to drop ammunition and retrieve a wounded marine."
see: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/09/politics/09BLAC.html?pagewanted=2&th
private security, fighting along side marines, sometimes doing more humanitarian work, sometimes doing more military work... to anyone actually in Iraq, i think it would be _extremely_ hard to differentiate between milirary and mercenary.
the press is beginning to ask more questions about what the role of these mercenaries is in iraq -- but currently, the two roles (milirary and mercenary) are fairly indistinguishable. according to Patrick Tooney, senior executive at blackwater, and again, reported in the new york times, "This is a phenomenon," he said. "This is a whole new issue in military affairs. Think about it. You're actually contracting civilians to do military-like duties." |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by marvin
nailon321 (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 3
09 Apr 2004
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viet nam was the same way, it made you sick to your stomach |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by RON
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 5
10 Apr 2004
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This is war stupids... it's "foreign-what-evers" against pissed-off "Iraq dudes."
I'd bet my money on the "Iraq dudes". They know the country AND have nothing to lose AND aren't going anywhere... a very deadly combo.
If someone killed my family, raped my young daughthers and stole my few belongings... well... expect a lot more BBQ'd "foreign what-evers" in Iraq before you bail. |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by ED
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
10 Apr 2004
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CNN did state they were 'private contractors" working for Blackwell Security. They also stated most blackwell Security personel were ex -special forces that are paid $125,000 to $200,000. |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by Patrick
pjrsullivan (nospam) netzero.net (unverified) |
Current rating: 3
10 Apr 2004
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The killing of these mercenaries had the feeling of a setup. Their handlers sent them there to be killed, for purposes of which one can only guess.
Maybe to take their loot, or silence them, with the added value of inflaming the entire situation in the area?
With their employers being such a truly rotten bunch of criminals, anything is possible. |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by philippe lambarts
philippe.lambaerts (nospam) skynet.be (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
10 Apr 2004
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Good riddancew, there should be no place for so called illegal enemy combatants, not in Afganistan, not in Iraq, whatever nationality, AmericaN, Arabic or Israeli, they should be eliminated. |
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Wake up america. |
by milita man
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
10 Apr 2004
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How many merc's can you fit in an SUV? 8, 2 in the front, 2 in the back and four in the ashtray. |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by joe
jmonkey8 (nospam) hotmail.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
10 Apr 2004
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so fucking what? they had jobs, big fucking deal. |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by luis munoz
inche_pen (nospam) hotmail.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 3
10 Apr 2004
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If mercenaries come to my counrty and kill thousand of inocent civilians I woulf fry them too. |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by Michael Feltes
mfeltes (nospam) shimer.edu (unverified) |
Current rating: 9
10 Apr 2004
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Civilians killed, mutliated?
"Sorry, but they were just collateral damage and we didn't mean it"
Dead mercenaries multilated?
"Oh, the horror. Those people are so uncivilized."
ML, there is a difference in kind between the two situations. The four mercenaries (following Mink's excellent point about the usage of the term) were not merely killed or mutilated. A public exhibition was made of their corpses by the crowd. Granted, there's plenty of revulsion to go around in Iraq, but this incident is particularly awful for just that reason.
One other point. The habit of quoting legal tracts in their entirety or large sections is massively annoying. If you have a particular passage that you'd like to use in making a point, that's cool. If, however, you want us to read it for background, then link it. And if this is some new technique in rhetoric, then please explain, because it's just being dismissed as noise by me, at least. |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by roger
b2flyer (nospam) hotmail.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 2
10 Apr 2004
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The four Americans killed in Iraq were trained killers.My condolences to they're family's.However,lets turn the tables a little.Imagin the U.S. having been invaded by some country that did'nt like who ran this Government.If WE THE PEOPLE decided to fight back, would not the SAME be done(out of hatered,after beening BOMBED) the why Iraq has been bombed.Seeing our loved ones blown to bits.The situation in Iraq is total chaos driven by the greed for OIL...... |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by Angel
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
10 Apr 2004
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It seems that some people are missing the point. Blackwater deals with mercenaries, soldiers of fortune...they put themselves in these dangerous positions for the CASH people...show 'em the money, and if they match the necessairy criteria...they are hired...their jobs are on the same level as hit men, and they look at human life thru the same eyes.
It's sad that there are wars, that civilians must pay for the sins of the governments, and that death is such a high paying job...
But the public should be made aware that we are only being told what we are supposed to hear, open your eyes and ears and realize that what is going on is to enlist support for the upcoming re-election of the Bush Cabel...to make them look like they are the next best thing, if not the only thing that can save our butts.
The 4 that died were part of the plan period...and many more will be sacrificed before this whole fiasco is over. |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by John Lord
hereticgenius (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 4
10 Apr 2004
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The media got it right. The men killed were civilians. None were active duty military.
Military consultants (or contractors if you will) were both faster and easier to delpoy than active service personel because DOD trains only a very few people that are designated to work protection.
Being a bodyguard is not the same as being a soldier: the training, equipment and mind-set are completely different. They were hired because they filled the bill. Civilians who once were soldiers? Yes, we call them 'veterans. |
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Occupiers Spend Millions on Private Army |
by Robert Fisk, Severin Carrell, Independent, UK
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 3
10 Apr 2004
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An army of thousands of mercenaries has appeared in Iraq's major cities, many of them former British and American soldiers hired by the occupying Anglo-American authorities and by dozens of companies who fear for the lives of their employees.
Many of the armed Britons are former SAS soldiers and heavily armed South Africans are also working for the occupation. "My people know how to use weapons and they're all SAS," said the British leader of one security team in southern Baghdad. "But there are people running around with guns now who are just cowboys. We always conceal our weapons, but these guys think they're in a Hollywood film."
There are serious doubts even within the occupying power about America's choice to send Chilean mercenaries, many trained during General Pinochet's vicious dictatorship, to guard Baghdad airport. Many South Africans are in Iraq illegally--they are breaking new laws, passed by the government in Pretoria, to control South Africa's booming export of mercenaries. Many have been arrested on their return home because they are do not have the licence now required by private soldiers.
Casualties among the mercenaries are not included in the regular body count put out by the occupation authorities, which may account for the persistent suspicion among Iraqis that the US is underestimating its figures of military dead and wounded. Some British experts claim that private policing is now the UK's biggest export to Iraq--a growth fueled by the surge in bomb attacks on coalition forces, aid agencies and UN buildings since the official end of the war in May last year.
Many companies operate from villas in middle-class areas of Baghdad with no name on the door. Some security men claim they can earn more than lbs80,000 a year; but short-term, high-risk mercenary work can bring much higher rewards. Security personnel working a seven-day contract in cities like Fallujah, can make $1,000 a day.
Although they wear no uniform, some security men carry personal identification on their flak jackets, along with their rifles and pistols. Others refuse to identify themselves even in hotels, drinking beer by the pool, their weapons at their feet. In several hotels, guests and staff have complained that security men have held drunken parties and one manager was forced to instruct mercenaries in his hotel that they must carry their guns in a bag when they leave the premises. His demand was ignored.
One British company director, David Claridge of the security firm Janusian, has estimated that British firms have earned up to lbs800m from their contracts in Iraq--barely a year after the invasion of Iraq. One British-run firm, Erinys, employs 14,000 Iraqis as watchmen and security guards to protect the country's oil fields and pipelines.
The use of private security firms has led to some resentment amongst the Department for International Development's aid workers--who fear it undermines the trust of Iraqi civilians. "DFID staff would prefer not to have this," said one source. "It's much easier for them to do their job without any visible security, but the security risks are great down there."
One South African-owned firm, Meteoric Tactical Solutions, has a lbs270,000 contract with DFID which, it is understood, involves providing bodyguards and drivers for its most senior official in Iraq and his small personal staff.
Another British-owned company, ArmorGroup has an lbs876,000 contract to supply 20 security guards for the Foreign Office. That figure will rise by 50 per cent in July. The firm also employs about 500 Gurkhas to guard executives with the US firms Bechtel and Kellogg Brown & Root.
Opposition MPs were shocked by the scale of the Government's use of private firms to guard British civil servants, and claimed it was further evidence that the British army was too small to cope. Menzies Campbell, the Liberal Democrat's foreign affairs spokesman, said: "This suggests that British forces are unable to provide adequate protection and raises the vexed question of overstretch--particularly in light of the remarks by the Chief of the Defence Staff, last week that Britain couldn't stage another operation on the scale of Iraq for another five years."
Andrew Robathan, a Tory MP on the international development select committee and former SAS officer, said: "The Army doesn't have the troops to provide static guards on this scale. Surely it would have been cheaper to have another battalion of troops providing guards."
The UK's largest private security firm in Iraq, Global Risk Strategies, is helping the coalition provisional authority and the Iraqi administration to draft new regulations. It is expecting to increase its presence from 1,000 to 1,200 staff this spring, and could reach 1,800 this year. However, aid charities are disturbed by the sums being spent on security, since DFID has diverted lbs278m from its mainstream aid budget for Iraqi reconstruction. Dominic Nutt, of Christian Aid, said: "This sticks in the craw. It's right that DFID protects its staff, but this is robbing Peter to pay Paul." |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by marat
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
10 Apr 2004
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Here's the latest corporate media take on the proliferation of contract mercernaries in Iraq, now estimated to constitute the second largest army in Iraq.
Private Army - Independent Contractors Fight and Die in Iraq, But Who Do They Answer To?
- ABC News
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/Nightline/World/iraq_contractors_040410-1.html
April 10 — What started with a trickle of special operations veterans freelancing as security consultants for the media and military contractors has grown into what is by some estimates the second-largest army in Iraq.
Iraq's overheated private security market is experiencing a wave of startups, spin-offs, and would-be soldiers of fortune trying to cash in.
"You've seen, basically, a literal private army of contractors deployed — up to 15,000," says Peter Singer, an analyst with the Brookings Institution. That would be more than the 8,000 British troops currently in Iraq, making the contractors the second-largest force after the American military.
On Friday, Sen. Jack Reed, D-R.I., wrote a letter to Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld asking for an accurate tally of the private security forces in Iraq and "legal justifications for their use" there.
The soldiers in this private army — units of which have engaged in battles and suffered fatalities — are among the world's best, and their clients include everyone from American diplomats, including administrator Paul Bremer, to foreign engineers and construction teams working throughout the country.
"There is a little bit of Dodge City aspect of what's going over there," says Dave Johnson, the operations director for the Steel Foundation, a private security firm that currently has more than 200 people on assignment in Iraq. "It is an enormous demand. I've never seen anything like it in the 10 years that I've been doing this kind of work in the private sector."
However, the large numbers of contractors fighting battles in Iraq on behalf of American interests is raising logistical and ethical questions.
"I don't think anyone imagined it would go this far," Singer says. "That's actually a big point of contention within the military right now. There's a real concern that actually we've pushed the envelope way past original expectations and way past where it should have been."
- Contractors’ Role
Some critics cite run-ins in Bosnia and elsewhere between civilian contractors and local authorities, and wonder if the private soldiers answer to anybody besides the private clients who hire them.
"If a U.S. military person is suspected of committing a crime, there's an established system to deal with it — court-martial," Singer says. "When a private military person is suspected of committing a crime, there's really not much legal recourse. For example, in Iraq right now, you would have to rely on local law. Well, guess what, there is no local law."
What local law exists in Iraq does not always get the first call in an emergency. For instance, when an ABC NEWS compound was caught in the middle of a firefight, ABC NEWS relied on a private security team for protection, despite being only one block away from the local police station.
"Private security was created because public law enforcement couldn't be everywhere all the time," Johnson says. "I think we're adding to the security environment. I think we're helping. And I think that it would be more of a challenge to be doing business in Iraq if there wasn't private security contractors available."
Retired Gen. Jack Keane, former vice chief of staff of the U.S. Army and an ABC NEWS consultant, says it "makes sense" to have the contracted forces in Iraq because they free up the most specialized U.S. forces.
"The security forces that we're talking about, yes, some of them are protecting key people," Keane says. "If they weren't doing that, that would require our special operations forces to do that. And quite frankly, those special operations forces are being used on reconnaissance and direct-action missions, which they're much more qualified to do."
An official from one of the security companies adds that there is a difference between what commonly are called "mercenaries" or "soldiers of fortune," and the force of security experts currently deployed in Iraq.
"The major difference would be one of ethics and focus," Johnson says. "Traditionally, mercenaries just follow the money and go offensive, without regard of or care for really anything. I think what we're doing is continuing the professional security services that we do provide here in the United States. And things that we're doing there are designed to safeguard people and assets, and completely in a defensive role."
Big Bucks
Private security experts are charging anywhere from $1,000 to $2,000 a day for their higher-end services as bodyguards.
"We're in an environment and a market right now where guys in the military can make more in a week than they used to make in a month," Johnson says.
Many of the private soldiers come from the ranks of America's special operations command, which met a few weeks ago to stem losses of their expensive-to-train forces to this new, higher-paying army.
"You can probably make double or triple, or maybe even five times as much as you make in the military," says Lawrence Korb, an assistant secretary of defense during the Reagan administration and a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress. "The thing that people have to realize is the U.S. government ends up paying twice for this, because they train these brave young men. Then, if they leave and go out and work for a private contractor, we have to hire them again. So, in effect, we're paying double for it."
- â€Outgunned and Out-Manned’
Despite all the training many of the contractors have, the risks in Iraq are enormous. Three former Army Rangers and one Navy SEAL were killed recently protecting a food convoy in Fallujah. They were working for Blackwater Security, the same company hired to protect Bremer.
Last Sunday, forces from Blackwater held off an attack by Shiite protesters on the American headquarters in Najaf until U.S. Marines could arrive.
"Generally, we're outgunned and out-manned," Johnson says. "It hasn't slowed recruiting down at all."
The surge in violence hasn't hurt the demand for the private security contractors' services, either.
"Companies themselves say that right now, a regular part of their cost of doing business [in Iraq] is somewhere between 10 [percent] and as much as 15 [percent], and in some cases 25 percent, being spent on private military protection," Singer says |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by Warren
ratko <.maltar (nospam) sbcglobal.net> (unverified) |
Current rating: -1
10 Apr 2004
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If those guys were realy protecting Paul Bremer, where he was at the time the four were attacked?
And what some people do not understand is that war is a war.You can not send the so soldiers (who tend to behive like "masters of the universe" ) and expect the enemies to deliver pizza for them.
Cruelly and barbarically? Yes, but if you dont love it leave it. Maybe the perpetrator really feel sorry and many do not reckognize that. |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by b2flyer
b2flyer (nospam) hotmail.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 1
10 Apr 2004
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If one would only look at the situation in iraq, you would see 1. this war was started on a mountain of lies. 2. WE THE PEOPLE fell for it hook,line,and sinker(by way of the press).3. this country(by attacking iraq) has gone down a path that will lead to this nations down-fall.4. NO NATION will take the u.s. serious,the lack of respect for America will spiral to an abyss of America becoming a target for people that HATE America because of it's policies TOWARD THEM.Yes, the 4 americans killed were train killers that worked to a tune of 1 to 2 thousand dollars a day(makes me wonder why our under paid military did NOT repond to help them).If THIS Government is so concerned about weapons of mass destruction,Start by taking Israels NUKES....then seek damages for our Sailors that were MURDERED aboard the U.S.S.LIBERTY, that Israel attacked and got away with...remember this motto (and study it) "BY WAY OF DECEPTION Thu will MAKE WAR" |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by Seth G
uiuc.edu (unverified) |
Current rating: 3
10 Apr 2004
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"If someone killed my family, raped my young daughthers and stole my few belongings... well... expect a lot more BBQ'd "foreign what-evers" in Iraq before you bail. " -- Please tell me where you are hearing that US soldiers/ US hired security personel are raping and stealing? I would like to apologize, a have a certain amount of faith in our military, especially the infantry on the ground.
"Good riddancew, there should be no place for so called illegal enemy combatants, not in Afganistan, not in Iraq, whatever nationality, AmericaN, Arabic or Israeli, they should be eliminated. "
-- My GOD!!! just how many people attacking US soldiers anymore are "legal combatants" ? well, your getting your wish, 'cause im sure the US military is working to eliminate those people...
"How many merc's can you fit in an SUV? 8, 2 in the front, 2 in the back and four in the ashtray. "
-- Wow
"If mercenaries come to my counrty and kill thousand of inocent civilians I woulf fry them too. "
-- Some please provide a link to what these "mercenaries" are doing... All i can tell is that they are basically the military equivilant of Pinkerton Guards...
"The four Americans killed in Iraq were trained killers.My condolences to they're family's."
-- Tell that to their children and wives! I bet they would appreciate it.
These people were nothing but security guards. I have yet to see anything that proves that these people were nothing but ... they got ambushed and killed and their bodies desecrated. They are being paid to protect corporate interests. Although most of you see this mission as evil, its something that needs to be done, and shouldn't be done by hte military. This is a sad situation, and you can argue the merits of being ther until your blue in the face, but these murdered security personel put themselves in harms way... but no one deserved what happened to them... and i certainly don't see US troops dancing and dragging bodies through the streets |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by b2flyer
b2flyer (nospam) hotmail;.com (unverified) |
Current rating: -1
10 Apr 2004
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It'a a proved fact, that the 4 Americans killed in Iraq were former Seals and Amry Rangers(TRAINED KILLERS) working for 1to2 thousand dollars per day)THEY SHOULD'NT HAVE BEEN THERE.LIkE WE the U.S .should'nt BE THERE fighting to control anothers country's OIL.Faith in the military...I don't have any.Since 1999 OUR NATIONS MILITARY have been conducting Mach TAKEOVERS ALL OVERS IN U.S Cities(whats that about?) trainng for taking over cities abroad(I DON'T THINK SO).REMEMBER,,,The ILLEAGAL PATRIOT ACT which CONGRESS WAS NOT ALLOWED TO READ BEFORE VOTING ON IT...I GUESS (SETH) feels safer since the Illegal act was passed...www.infowars.com click on video clips and down load and WATCH "911 the road to tyranny.".after wathing this video tell me how much FAITH YOU HAVE IN OUR MILITARY or,OR GOVERNMENT. |
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The Iraq War starts with 911. It is important to understand 9-11. |
by Pam
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: -1
10 Apr 2004
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LIST OF ARTICLES from
http://members.fortunecity.com/911/.
September the Eleventh 2001.
The World Trade Center.
In a Perfect World.
Evidence of Explosives in the World Trade Center Towers collapse (0.7 MB).
Why did the World Trade Center Towers Fall? A Review of Thomas Eagar's (of MIT) Article (0.7 MB).
Collapse of the World Trade Center Towers. A Review of Charles Clifton's Article (0.7 MB).
The Jet Fuel; How hot did it heat the World Trade Center?
Proof the Twin Towers were Deliberately Demolished.
The FEMA Report into the World Trade Center 7 Collapse is a Total Joke.
Multi-Storey Buildings in Steel: The World Trade Center (0.4 MB).
Some Articles from Engineering News Record (0.8 MB).
Comments on the World Trade Center Demolition (0.4 MB).
Microsoft Software used to simulate the crash of a Boeing 747 into the World Trade Center.
University of California, Berkeley Professor, Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl Testifies.
The World Trade Center 7 Explosion Myth.
The World Trade Center Towers collapse as an Enormous Insurance Scam.
What went wrong with the investigation? By Eric Hufschmid (with comment).
Sixty State Street and the World Trade Center towers: A Comparison (0.7 MB).
Was Thermite used to Melt Sections of the World Trade Center Core Columns?
Calculations Say at Least 14 Tons of High Explosive Needed to Bring Down Each Tower.
The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) Reports on the World Trade Center disaster.
Table Of Contents for the FEMA World Trade Center Report.
Chapter 1 of the FEMA WTC Report: Introduction (with comment) (0.9 MB).
Chapter 2 of the FEMA WTC Report: The Twin Towers (with comment) (2.2 MB).
Chapter 3 of the FEMA WTC Report: WTC 3 (0.4 MB).
Chapter 4 of the FEMA WTC Report: WTC 4, 5, and 6 (1.2 MB).
Chapter 5 of the FEMA WTC Report: World Trade Center Seven (with comment) (1.3 MB).
Chapter 6 of the FEMA WTC Report: Bankers Trust Building (0.6 MB).
Chapter 7 of the FEMA WTC Report: Peripheral Buildings (0.8 MB).
Appendix A of the FEMA WTC Report: Overview of Fire Protection in Buildings (0.5 MB).
Appendix B of the FEMA WTC Report: Structural Steel and Steel Connections (0.6 MB).
Appendix D of the FEMA WTC Report: WTC Steel Data Collection (0.8 MB).
The FEMA World Trade Center Collection in PDF-document format.
The Fires.
Research Results from the Cardington Test Fires (text only).
A New Approach to Multi-Storey Steel Framed Buildings Fire and Steel Construction (0.8 MB).
The Behaviour of Multi-storey Composite Steel Framed Structures in Response to Compartment Fires (1.0 MB).
The Cardington Tests and the Broadgate Fire.
Tapes Tell of Firefighters Courage at WTC.
The Cardington Reports in PDF-document format.
The Pentagon.
A Detailed Analysis of whether or not a Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon (1.5 MB).
Photos of Flight 77 crashing into the Pentagon are a Complete and Utter Fabrication (0.5 MB).
The Pentagon Problem in a Nutshell.
The Bijlmer Crash - Joe Vialls - Caught in a Lie (0.5 MB).
Carol A. Valentine Article Completely Wrong.
The Strange Case of the Sports Utility Vehicle at the Pentagon.
How the Size of the Plane in the "Explosion" Photo was Calculated.
The Essence of the Problem.
Article on the Pentagon Retrofit.
The Response, Or Rather, Lack Of It.
District of Columbia Air National Guard Mission And Vision Statement.
New Jersey Air National Guard Mission Statement.
An example of Air National Guard efficency.
Where was NORAD on September Eleven?
Other.
Many 9-11 "Hijackers" are Still Alive and Well.
Evidence that the Arabs are Not to blame for the WTC attack.
Collection of Eric Hufschmid's early articles.
Israelis arrested on suspicion of 9-11 involvement.
Sept 11th - Unanswered Questions By MalcontentX (0.3 MB).
Seismic Waves Generated by Aircraft Impacts and Building Collapses at the WTC (0.3 MB).
Seismic Observations During the September 11, 2001, Terrorist Attack (0.5 MB).
Investigation shows Cellphone Calls from 9-11 "Hijacked" Planes are next to Impossible
Benjamin Freedman Predicted the Present Push for WWW III in 1961, prescient eh?
Stranger Than Fiction (from www.whatreallyhappened.com).
Palestine (Now Known As Israel).
Some Facts About Palestine.
Listing and Map of Land Ownership in Palestine in 1947.
Listing and Map of Towns and Villages Ethnically Cleansed/Destroyed by the Jews.
More on the Towns and Villages Ethnically Cleansed/Destroyed by the Jews (0.5 MB).
Time line of the Israeli aggression against the Palestinians in the 1948 war.
Jewish/Israeli massacres of Palestinians and Jewish Terrorism in general.
Brief articles on the 1948, 1956 and 1967 wars started by Israel.
Brief article on the Israeli attempt to ignite a civil war in Lebanon.
Arafat calls for democratic elections in the United States.
The Amazing Cost of Israel to the United States
America should fight minorities and aliens the way Israel does!
The Day Israel Deliberately Killed 34 American Sailors.
Brief article on Israeli apartheid.
Israel wins Huge Victory.
Is Israel a Democracy?
Some Israeli War Criminals.
Some articles on the War Criminal Sharon.
The War Criminal Sharon. The Long Version.
The Chinese claim California as a Confucian Homeland.
Time to Bomb Israel for its Development and Deployment of Weapons of Mass Destruction.
God gave the Jews New York.
The Genocidal God of the Jews.
Some Zionist Fairy Tales.
Israel mugs the Palestinians.
Muslims base their claim to Palestine on History.
Jewish Terrorism.
Jewish Terrorism targeting the British.
Online Books about Palestine and the Jews.
What you can do if you care.
Jews Attack Christianity.
Here are some websites which mirror the old nerdcities.com/guardian site (from about January 2003).
http://misternet.org/nerdcities/index_guardian.html
http://www.wtc7.net/911research/mirrors/guardian which is part of http://www.wtc7.net
http://guardian.911review.org which is a part of the http://911review.org site.
Here are three websites that mirror some or all of the most recent edition of the nerdcities.com/guardian site (from September 2003).
http://911review.org/Wget/members.fortunecity.com/911 (full mirror)
http://guardian.150m.com
http://guardian.250free.com
Here is some useful information from the second.
Download 45 Megabytes of Information Concerning 9-11.
If you like the articles presented on guardian.150m.com then you can download them, and many more like them, by clicking on the following link.
Click here to download the September 11 2003 update of the nerdcities.com/guardian site (45 MB)
Save the archive file guardian11Sep03.tar to a directory on your hard-drive.
We will assume that you have chosen C:\ but any directory will do.
Extract the archive using WinZip, Stuffit or tar -xf to the directory C:\
This will automatically place the contents of the archive into the directory C:\guardian (and sub-directories).
Microsoft users will use WinZip to extract the files.
Linux/Unix users will use the command tar -xf guardian11Sep03.tar and
Apple users will use Stuffit.
Now point your web browser at C:\guardian\index.html.
That is, type C:\guardian\index.html in the address/location bar (where you usually enter a web-sites URL) of Internet Explorer.
This will bring up the main index page (don't forget to bookmark it for easy return). Now just follow the links.
If you wish you can also download a collection of full-sized photos from the MIT report - Sixty State Street - A Case Study.
Click here to download the collection of photos from the MIT report (15 MB)
Thumbnail versions of these photos are already available in the archive guardian11Sep03.tar
Save the archive file sixty-state-street.tar to the same directory that you saved guardian11Sep03.tar
Similarly, extract the archive using WinZip, Stuffit or tar -xf to the directory C:\
This will automatically place the contents of the archive into the directory C:\guardian\sixty-state-street
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by b2flyer
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
10 Apr 2004
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PAM if memory of news reports serve me correct,,,,NOthing was EVER said about 911 being the CAUSE of the ILLEAGAL WAR In IRAQ.WE the American public were LIED to about Iraq being threat to the U.S.with weapons of mas destruction(that DO NOT EXIST) in the words of Mel Gibson "i will pitch my tent next to the weapons of mass destruction and no one will ever find me" |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by b2flyer
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
10 Apr 2004
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There was a earlier comment regarding one "having too much faith in our military".Well,the WAR HAWKS have so much faith in our military that, they failled to inform OUR TROOPS about the dangers of DU(DEPLETED URANIUM) a substance that carry a half-life of more than 4-billions years.Remember the strange illness affecting VETS from Gulf-WAR1? An Illness that affected the wives,girlfriends and Husbands of returning soldiers .Not to mention the DEFORMED babies born to them.www.rense.com search the affects of depleted uranium and birth defects.See the photos of deformed iraqi children from the bombs and DU shells used.Yes,our Government showed so much support for our troops that,an act was voted on and approved by congress,to REDUCE BENEFITS for VETS.SOME SUPPORT! |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by Seth G
uiuc.edu (unverified) |
Current rating: 1
11 Apr 2004
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first off.. that http://members.fortunecity.com/911 website is a complete joke... its complilation of random "facts" and outright assumptions. The author in some cases is digging as deep as he can to try and draw conclusions that 9-11 is some "conspiracy" and that there were bombs planted inside the world trade center... one line goes reaches as far as to say that
"One of the accused carries a passport on an internal flight "
... to "PROVE" that the attack couldn't have been carried out by arabs, even though there is all sorts of video in many different nations media showing mid east terrorists ADMITTING TO THE ATTACKS!
The other link on DU led to an archive where the author talks about....
--"Talking to Animals"
--"Hemp - Past, Present
And Future"
--"Three Men Seeking Monsters "
--"Eyewitness UFO Reports "
--"EVP Ghost Voices "
--and Brad Steiger "World's Foremost Paranormal Authority "
i have heard a number of theories on "Gulf War Syndrome"... personally i think DU might be to blame... although i have heard possible explinations from Post-Traumatic-Stress to vapors of Iraqi Ammo dumps...
Maybe i should take a second and clarify something... I didn't say i had faith in the administration, (although im sure i have more than any of you)... i said (or ment to say) i had faith on the soldiers on the ground. My grandpa fought in the 1st Marine Division in WWII, both of his brother fought in Korea (one died). My best friends brother-in-law is serving in Iraq right now. My roommate last semester was in Air Force ROTC. I spent most of high school in a Police Explorer program (think boy scouts with cops)... although i changed my career path, i have grown to have a lot of respect for law enforcement and the military (the guy running the post was in the 82nd Airborne).
There are some people who go into the military that do scare me... but i know through personal experience that the vast majority of soldiers, and the lower ranked officers (Lt-Capt.) are good people, who believe that they are fighting for this country and what it stands for.
Are they brainwashed? ..maybe to an extent.
But part of that "brainwashing"/training is constantly telling them not to target civilians.
You can complain about the merits of the war all you want... but nothing gets under my skin like accusing the foot soldiers of atrocities. If you want to be real synical... that the president and the top echelon doesn't give a crap about civilian lives, you can't tell me that its in their best political interests to attack civilians. |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by b2flyer
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 3
11 Apr 2004
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It seems our miltary's best interest is to,HIDE THE TRUE NUMBER OF U.S. SOLDIERS being KILLED in Iraq particulary in Fallujah.I read a story accounting the 1st days of the ASSAULT on Fallujah " a senoir PENATGON offical stated "130 U.S. soldiers killed in Fallujah"the story has all but disappeared from the net.lets switch from one hot spot to another.How about the humanitarian aid in the form of food dropped from U.S. planes for the people BOMBED in Afganastan painted bright yellow for people to find.Was it just all a big mistake to find that many of the care packages were laced with CLUSTER BOMBLETS painted yellow to look like cans of peanut butter.Once picked up ,BOOM.This was the food that was sent to INNOCENT CIVILIANS by the U.S military.MIstakes like this are NOT ACCIDENTS.Who says our military don't target innocent civilians.In the case of Fallujah Yet another war crime is about to take place.While the U.S. talks cease-fire.U.S. war planes are positioning to LEVEL THAT TOWN that the world will NEVER know what happened there.How about the many reporters that have been targeted and KILLED by our forces on the ground?Only to claim that each attack was just a mistake.Im sorry but, a tank can not mistakingly fire 2 tank rounds only in an area of the hotel where journalist were staying.Seems like our militray has a lot to hide by killing the people on the front lines there to gather and report what they see.Makes one wonder why so many reporters have been killed.Ask yourself this question,,why have the main stream media not shown the American public any of the wounded and dead that have returned from Iraq? WHY? I'll tell you why,This country has a lot to hide from the public,and by showing these images,as well as images of innocent women and children bombed to bits,there would be public OUTCRY just like during Vietnam.The U.S.bombed Laos in direct violation to the Geneva Accords .Many of the cluster bomblets left un exploded are killing farmers working they're fields to this very day.NO ,our military don't target civilans,they just add them to the enemys BODY COUNT.If some of you think the internet links given in an earlier comment were links to juke sites look at this one www.linltv.org search to a doclimentary called "BOMBIES".I guess there are some Americans that are so brainwashed to think America NEVER DOES anything bad or Illegal.Since this is suppose to be a HOLY time of the year look at this "YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW"and our military has sown a lot of evil around the world Makes you wonder why so many countries hate America |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by t2t
tommycartoon (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
11 Apr 2004
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Who cares what happened to there bodies after they are dead. Worms will crawl about you when your dead and you will become a victim of rot and “refertilize” of the earth. The important thing is that the became a battle cry to end this stupid occupation. |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by Seth G
uiuc.edu (unverified) |
Current rating: -1
11 Apr 2004
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Ok, first off I’ll start with a quick story. Like I said last time, I spent a few years in Police Explorers. Besides learning about doing traffic stops, crime scene investigations, how to use pressure points, and directing traffic at county fairs… we also, every once in a while, we got to be used as bad guys for SWAT and rapid deployment training. Basically, some of us would lie down and pretend to be victims, some would go running up to officers screaming, and others would hold guns and be the criminals. The police would use what essentially amounts to paint-ball guns, as would those of us playing the bad guys. Every once in a while, they would let us have a turn or two as the police. One time when I was one of the police, we entered a large room of a warehouse. There were boxes and all sorts of other stuff on the floor and it was dark. Right after we walked in the door, the person who was the bad guy fired at us a couple times. I never saw him shoot, but I looked to where I heard the shots, and I saw a leg sticking out, so I fired. Well, turns out I shot a girl who was playing the role of a victim. I got lectured by the guy running our post (like I said, ex-military) about how I shouldn’t have shot without seeing the person.
When it comes to things like civilian casualties, I always try and put myself into the shoes of the guy on the ground. I realize these people have had significant training, but still, all bets are off when bullets start flying at you. I think if I was a soldier, and a guy jumped from behind a corner, took some pot-shots at me, and ducked back, what I would do. My guess is that the US troops would shoot back. But who is in the building behind where they are shooting? What if a person runs out in front of them? All of a sudden a family is killed, and the US soldiers probably don’t even know about it. ..
I am NOT saying this is right.
I am NOT saying that this shouldn’t make us question the war, it certainly makes me question it.
I go to Al Jezzera (sp.) and look at the pictures, and it makes me feel sick to my stomach. But one thing doesn’t change, and that is that these children and women that are killed are done so accidentally.
The more I think about it, the more I think about how that entire country is falling apart, and I don’t know if we can save it. Most of the people we are fighting against are trying to turn Iraq into another Iran. Iraq has become a rally point for people all over the mid-east who have a bone to pick with us. Suicide bombers and rebels are shooting at our troops. What the military has a HUGE problem with is that when we shoot back, we do so with about 10 times the force, and we never know who is nearby.
My suggestion, tonight at 8pm on the History Channel, they are starting a series called “Band of Brothers”… watch it, it is probably the best mini-series done about American soldiers, and probably the most truthful. |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by b2flyer
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 4
11 Apr 2004
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Think about this SETH there would be no one to shoot at U.S.troops,if the U.S did'nt illegally attack Iraq.I guess it was accidental when an A-10 palne fired a missle at Aljazzera's building in Iraq only to circle and ACCIDENTALLY FIRE ANOTHER ONE,AND THEN ACCEDENTALLY CIRCLE TO VIEW THE DAMAGE.I guess the guy flying the plane accidentally missed seeing the sign that covered the roof top saying PRESS.During the 1st stages of the war on Iraq America bombed an Iraqi market place Killing HUNDREDS,OOPPS,ACCIDENTAL.WAKE UP PLEASE! |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by b2flyer
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 6
11 Apr 2004
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TO ALL THAT ARE READING THESE COMMENTS,AND,TO THOSE THAT HAVE POSTED A COMMENT.do a google search on a story published about GULFWAR1 called "THE HIGHWAY OF DEATH."read the story and view the photos of how AFTER GEO.W.BUSH told the world if,Iraqi soldiers would leave "they would NOT BE HARMED".As 1 pilot was quotes as saying,"it was like shooting fish in a fish tank" The U.S. bombed and killed more than 100,000 Iraqis trying to return home.Another U.S.BOMBING ACCIDENT.www.linktv.org The filmmakers film has YET to be sceened in the U.S. wonder why?I guess the Afghan massacre was another U.S.accident.4000 Taliban fighters were told if they surrendered no harm would come to them.After surrendering, they were loaded into trucks and driven through the Afgahn desert for hours at above 100 ' temperatures.Then buried in mass graves(google search "Afghan massacre the highway of death)see the film for yourself www.linktv.org Another ACCIDENT Excecuted by American WAR HAWKS.In regards to Iraq and the illegal war ragging there,the summer is approaching,complete with high temps and sand storms,I wonder how many U.S.casulaties will be hidden from public view,It's only going to get worse.Bring the troops home and vote this madman and his henchmen out of office. |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by So called Merc now in Iraq
dsec1 (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified) |
Current rating: -2
12 Apr 2004
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I've read most of the comment on this board and a lot that has been written seems so be written by ill informed viewers of our spin crazy media. I work for one of the mentioned private organizations currently in Iraq and I've been here for almost 7 months now. I work alongside many of the other so called "merc" organizations that you all have heard about. Our mission here is not to attack Iraqi forces. Our mission is to protect people and supplies. We protect food, we protect VIP's and we protect Iraqis who have been threatened by their own people for assisting coalition forces. I take it that you all have not heard about the 100’s of local nationals who have been dragged out of their house (by other Iraqis) and shot in the head for assisting coalition forces. The majority of the people want change and are willing to die to see that their kids have a better life than they had under Saddam’s gang of thugs. If only you all could see the 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 year old kids lined up along the roads begging for money and/or food, you would understand why many of us prior military men and women come here with private organizations. Yes the money is good, but most of us still have a sense of mission and want to do our part to ensure that things change here.
We are not here to destroy, plunder or pillage! We entered this country legally and with permition of coalition forces. The only time we engage insurgent forces is when we get attacked. Just as one incident yesterday. Now tell me....who of you would not defend yourself if attacked? I'm sure all of you would. The thing is, you would have to be here to understand our mission to understand our role here. Our mission is to support coalition forces. We do this with the authorization of the Coalition Provisional Authority. We do not fight alongside coalition forces unless we have no other choice. Our Blackwater counterparts do the same. They are not here to kill, but they are here to protect. The four Blackwater Consultants that were murdered just recently were on a humanitarian protection mission.
As you know, our military has downsized considerably. Our military cannot be everywhere at all times. I do not see what the issue is with having us to protect people, food and supplies, which free-up the military to do what they have to do. What is the issue? I see no problem. If my counterparts and I were conducting offensive missions, I would have a problem. Protection is our mission. No more....No less.
Before you speak, understand. Understanding is the result of reasonable sensibility and facts. Judge us so called “mercs” (hah) based on the actions of our majority and not the majority of the media BS! |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by Zinfandel
monkeywg (nospam) nospam.hotmail.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 11
12 Apr 2004
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To the so called Merc now in Iraq:
Not that you convince me that you are not just an opportunist, if you wanted to help the Iraqis, why not volunteer for an aid agency. With some friends I drove medical equipment through Europe to Iraq, didn't get paid and most of the expenses came out of our own pocket. Just like most foreigners in Iraq, if you are directly or indirectly in the pay of coalition forces, you are not their for altruistic reasons.
But you say you entered the country legally with the permission of the coalition forces. Well, how fucking legal is that! What authority do the coalition forces have? They are occupying a nation having torn it apart in an illegal war.
And a footnote to other contributions; if your country had been ransacked by an invading army, there was no reliable power, water or source of food, employment levels were below 50% and you were being pushed around by a heavily armed, arogant militia whilst your country's natural resources were being pillaged. Wouldn't you feel like resisting.
The French did during the Second World War and are only spoken of in high esteme. If you can't see an inconsistency here, it is probably because you are a racist. |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by Zinfandel
monkeywg (nospam) nospam.hotmail.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 9
12 Apr 2004
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If you want to read about some real heroism from people who don't feel the need to swagger around heavily armed in order to make a difference for the Iraqi people without stamping on their liberty or stealing their oil:
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2004/04/288796.html
Root:
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2004/04/288797.html |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by So called "merc" in Iraq
dsec1 (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified) |
Current rating: -1
12 Apr 2004
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Mr. Nospam, I see that you are not informed as you should be. Many companies are here to protect aid agency workers. If you don't believe that they do request protection when they go to certain areas, hah, then you be the fool. Sir or Mam, if you are so inclined to put your 2 cents into the pot, then get your ass back over here and make a difference. If you are so against coalition forces being here, then why don't you lobby against our participation, .Instead of driving from Europe to Iraq, drive to DC and make a change there. Some people sicken me! I see a whole lot of talk and not enough walk. Sir or Mam, you speak without knowledge of situations. You call me an opportunist, but see, what you do not know is that I've been here before with the military and I've seen food convoys attacked, water lines destroyed by the people who say that they are fighting against us for the benefit of their own people. If that is so, why do they harm them. I've had Iraqi friends who vanished or were found dead, shot by their own people. What you fail to understand is that those are the people that I am here to protect. I can care less about protecting the troops. They protect themselves. Call me a racist for being here or whatever you want, but sir/mam, I will not stoop to your level. . I am here because I am a protector. I carry a gun because I am a protector in a dangerous area. To all of you Arm Chair Politicians…..I respect your opinions, but until you stop speaking and start doing, I’ll respect your actions. |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by Zinfandel
monkeywg (nospam) nospam.hotmail.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 13
12 Apr 2004
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To the so called Merc now in Iraq:
You say, "By the way, show me proof of one incident here in Iraq where so called "mercs" pushed around, hurt or killed an Iraqi! Show all of us proof!!!!"
Show me where I accused you or any of your 'private security' friends of such a thing! My actual words were, '...pushed around by a heavily armed, arogant militia...' If you feel that that includes you, then you are not an innocent civilian, are you.
Incidentally, if you look at all the e-mail addresses on here they all include (nospam), I added it myself before I realised the system did it automatically. I do use a pseudonym - but so do you!
As for lobbying against your presence, are you having me on? I and many million other people spent much of the last year and more trying to stop this illegal war and subsequent occupation. But the precious, so-called democracies that we live in didn't pay much attention to the people to whom they are supposed to be servants.
And as for your invitation to visit your capital, I wouldn't set foot in your country. You have many wonderful intelligent people but as a nation you are so dumb you scare the shit out of me! |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by So called"merc" in Iraq
dsec1 (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified) |
Current rating: -5
12 Apr 2004
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Well, buddy all I can say to you is......As long as you continue to feel the way you do, then continue to fill this board with all or your words. If you're scared to fight or disagree with your enemy or those who do not believe as you do, at their front door, then by all means...Stay where you are. As for us being dumb as a nation....Well, I'll tell you what; your nation must be dumber, because I see no other nation challenging us for our seat of power. Sir, if that time ever comes for us to be challenged, I can guarantee you that us so called “mercs” will be right there. Our mission will surely be an offensive one..... And may god have mercy on those who challenge us.
This concludes my session here. |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by Nobody
nobody (nospam) nowhere.net (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
12 Apr 2004
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These guys are common goons! The same kind of redneck lowlife hired by southern "security" firms to be shipped north as strikebreakers. |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by Nobody
nobody (nospam) nowhere.net (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
12 Apr 2004
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These guys are common goons! The same kind of redneck lowlife hired by southern "security" firms to be shipped north as strikebreakers. |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by DON
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
12 Apr 2004
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Mercenaries or not...
By this time next year, YOU, YOUR kids, YOUR grandkids or YOUR friends and neighbors kids will be drafted off to the Middle East anyways.
I'm sure YOUR sacrifies will be appreciated not just in lost lives but also from YOUR finances as well - inflation, higher interest rates, re-directed resources, unemployment, higher taxes, etc... I hope YOU don't lose your job, house, car, etc...
I'm sure YOU will thank all those who contributed to the successful control of Iraq so your government can proceed to Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc...
Be sure to especially thank those who are making a difference at this time such as mercenaries, contractors, aid workers, consultants, civilians, actual bonafide soldiers. Also, thanks to those who contribute to this board who are are just too stupid or lazy to find out the truth.
Honorable mention to those who drive SUV's and such, so as to increase the reliance on imported oil.
It' nice to know you value "Billy" and "Jane" enough to speed up the process so they can die for their country starting next year.
I guess the door kicking is getting closer, eh. |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by DON
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: -1
12 Apr 2004
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Continued... Mercenaries or not...
P.S. Just to finish off - I included a video of a missile that fires into the WTC on 9\11 about 1/3 second before impact.
At least show it to your kids before they are drafted off next year - at least give them a chance to bail.
http://www.letsroll911.org/ |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by Mink!
mink (nospam) tcp.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
12 Apr 2004
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A quick comment to "Seth" - surely you realize that the categories of "civilian" and "mercenary" are not mutually exclusive?
That said, if one is there in the hire of the occupation forces, protecting people on missions for said forces (food deliveries, other functions outsourced by the US military) or guarding known collaborators (yes, collaborators) and/or conveniently parachuted in "new government officials" from abroad, all whilst carrying a gun or otherwise packing heat, then yeah, one is a target. That's just how it works. No one is spending time carefully inspecting the insignia on uniforms before shooting. You help the CPA, you die with the CPA. 'Cos, you know, there's a war on.
This is why, in fact, many aid organizations and other NGOs are so very concerned about NOT receiving backing or assistance from the CPA.
A quick note about DU - the Asahi Shinbun reported last night that nine American MPs returning from the Samawa area (in the south, which is where the SDF have been sent) complained of illness, and from 4 of them, depleted uranium was found in their urine. This was reported by a former US Army military doctor, "Azaf Dorakovic" (pardon the spelling, the article isn't English so I am only guessing) who was speaking before a citizens' group in Tokyo on the 12th. He is a specialist of DU who opposed its use in the Persian Gulf War in 1991. This is making people nervous. People in Japan get quite nervous about the subject of radiation poisoning, for somewhat obvious reasons. No official word yet.
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by matthew strickland
matt_spins_around (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
12 Apr 2004
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you confirmed what i gathered from the first reports. are mercinaries illegal combatants like the ones in detention in cuba. i despise paid mercinaries fighting for the $us.young dedication to a cause you believe in is another thing i was against the war in iraq from the start of desert stormand my thoughts are confirmed unfortunately . im 46 ex 3 years of airforce and telephone linesman for 17 years thanks for the opportunity |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by Born Iraqi
klslimm (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 12
13 Apr 2004
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May Allah bless all of you. My american friend (so called "merc") had me to read your comments. I must say to you that those of you who are against coalition forces being here and my friends who you say are bad mercanaries, I beg to differ. I am from Iraq! I live in Iraq! At 16 I (now 40) was thrown into Saddams Army on the threat of my sister being raped. I saw Saddam's (that son of a bitch) people kill for no reason. You fail to understand how oppressed we as a people where. I am an educated person who was procecuted for being so. I begged, borrowed and stole just to learn. I was not allowed to attend scholl because my family was not in the Baathist party. I fled Iraq because of what that man did to us. Saddam's people killed my father because I fled and refused to return. When I returned, they made me watch as they tortured my brothers. That son of a bitch! I am happy the americans and others came and took him away. I am happy that they are here and destroying those who want to keep us down.
I watch the news and I see much nonsense about iraqis not wanting americans here. That is as far away from the truth as it can be. Common iraqis like me live in fear. Not fear of us troops or contractors, but fear of our own people. We want democracy! We want freedom! NO MORE WAR! NO MORE KILLING! If the americans leave we will only get a new Saddam. You people do not understand . We were a supressed people for many many years by Saddam. You expect the everything to change in 1 year. No! It is impossible. This is a process that will take time. Many more people will die, because they are not educated enough to understand what democracy is. You do not fight democracy. You embrace democracy. You fail to understand that we need help to build democracy and to place the right people in power to help build a democracy. With no help, the iraqi people will be strongarmed by real militias who want to control everything for themselves just as Saddam did.
I say to you all who do not agree with the americans and the protection agencies being here. You do not live here, you have not been tortured, you have not seen the things that we have seen. Until you have, you will never know what we faced and why the majority of us want the americans here. |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by Angel
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 1
13 Apr 2004
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This is a comment to "Born Iraqi"...
Your post is a most interesting one. As i do have some understanding of the Muslim religion and i know that the use of cursing...example using SOB in your post is something that is not accepted by the religion.
Yes, i agree that Sadaam was a bad man and should have been deposed...but the method chosen was not the best, there were too many lies all the way around...too many innocent people have died on both sides because of these lies.
Freedom is something YOU work for it has to start one person at a time...it can not be given to you by others, it cannot be protected by others...
Freedom it'self is the choice of every person that wants it and then they must do what must be done to keep it...Freedom won by the hands of someone else is just another form of slavery.
It will be the Iraqi people that will bring about the freedoms they wish....without the United States Military or Blackwater Security Forces, or other countries.
The tribes must stop the bickering, trying to put one above the other and realize that there is more power in a United Iraqi people working for the same purpose. Fear is the great divider in your country. Trust comes with dialogue and conquoring fear.
Allah has shown the way...and the way is Love one another...have respect for one another...do not kill one another...but most of all LISTEN AND LEARN from one another, draw strength from one another...
Iraq is a country of many mysteries, wonders and beauty. It has the possibility to bring to its inhabitants a wellspring of abundence...it did once and it can again...
To continue this war will only prove true what i said earlier...to live by the sword is to die by the sword...The choice is up to the people that live there...not the American military or any other foreign "protection" force.
God Bless |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by Archangel
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 3
13 Apr 2004
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Maybe you should hold your tongue when you comment on someone's religion. Who are you tell an Iraqi what the Muslim religion allows and does not allow. As for freedom being something you work for coming from within.... America gained her freedom because of the French. Without their help we would have never won the Revolutionary war. Please think about what you are saying before you say it..... |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by Angel
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
13 Apr 2004
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Archangel...
try to understand, i am not condemning because of the use of cuss words...but i do know that it is akin to swearing, and the use of SOB does not get ones point across in a way that will get people to listen.
There is a difference with the way the French helped during the American revolution and the way this war is being fought...you are correct in saying that French gave their help during the revolution...but tell me, why did they not wish to be a part of this so called war for Freedom?...Could it be because the happened to see that it was not all it was said to be?
During the American Revolution, the French fought WITH the americans...they did not come into this country shoot up the British ruling class and kill innocent american women and children..and then say they were going to stick around until we americans learned how to govern ourselves....then create a permanent french base on our soil when they felt it was safe to leave.
The big difference is...Americans fought SIDE BY SIDE with the French...to gain their freedom...this seems to be something that most of Iraq was not given...we went in like bowling balls knocking down all the pins and then figured we would set 'em up again later.
That is NOT the way to show someone how to gain their freedom...but it is the way of domination...and reguardless of what the origional plan was...that is how a lot of iraqis seem to see it.
please, archangel, watching what one says is a good thing..but sometimes some things just have to be said. |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by Born Iraqi
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 3
14 Apr 2004
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Angel,
In regards to your comment about the French fighting with the Americans during your Revolutionary war.....That may be true. But what you fail to understand here is that there would have never been an opportunity for the Coalition to fight with the Iraqi Army against Saddam. The Iraqi Army belonged to Saddam. Each and every man feared Saddam and would not dare to cross him. The Coalition would have never fought side by side with the Iraqi Army. Us commoners would have done so, but what do we know about fighting. Nothing! So who was left to fight for us? The Coalition!
You said: Freedom it'self is the choice of every person that wants it and then they must do what must be done to keep it.
I agree to a certain point. See, we did not have a choice while Saddam was in power. We did not have anything to fight with. We could not speak what we felt with for the fear of death for ourselves or family. Did you see what Saddam did to the Kurds? Do you think he would not have done that to us. If there was no outside authority to step in and we revolted, it would have been in vain. Then, what would have been accomplished. If that would have happened, then would it have been right for the coalition to help us then, or should we just continue to die? I am all for destroying or suppressing those who only want to rule Iraq to continue to suppress my people. LET MY PEOPLE GO!
You say: The tribes must stop the bickering, trying to put one above the other and realize that there is more power in a United Iraqi people working for the same purpose.
That is true, but do you think if the coalition leave this will happen. No, no....There will be a civil war and more will die. See, you do not understand the mind set of the Iraqi people. Tribes want to rule and many have the power to do so if the coalition leaves. The only way to suppress such an issue is a group (which the coalition is assiting with now) independant of tribal politics, with the power
to stand up against tirbes challenging the democratic process. This will not happen overnight and we understand that. Many will die, but we will continue to be free and have a democracy.
Also regardless of Muslim religion, Saddam will continue to be an S.O.B. I lived it, you did not! |
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Re: Seth G - a voice of treason? sorry, reason! |
by Zinfandel
monkeywg (nospam) nospam.hotmail.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
14 Apr 2004
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Seth G,
I just scanned through this thread once again and re-read your response to Pam or b2flyer who posted links to a number of sites relating to DU, 911 and various other websites of a, shall we say 'non-mainstream' persuasion.
As with many of your stubbornness, rather than re-evaluate what you think you know, you revert to the same tactic of distraction that governments and prestidigitators have used for centuries and fly completely off topic in the hope that nobody will notice and follow you blindly down some cul-de-sac.
Specifically, you refer (I assume) to the rense.com website when you say that:
"The other link on DU led to an archive where the author talks about....
"Talking to Animals"
"Hemp - Past, Present And Future"
"Three Men Seeking Monsters "
"Eyewitness UFO Reports "
"EVP Ghost Voices "
and Brad Steiger "World's Foremost Paranormal Authority"
I assume that this is your attempt to discredit the source. Well, I'm not one to swallow without chewing, so I'm not going to make specific comments about these links. But it appears that whilst you are not prepared to consider these points of view, you do not question the conjecture of networks whose other output include WWF, celeb-fests and other puerile TeeVee chewing gum.
One must discard all the shit that has been absorbed in your TeeVee sleep before you can even think about what is really going on. |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by Matt
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 4
15 Apr 2004
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Don't think for a second that Der Furher Bu$h will actually bring freedom to Iraq. He hates it. I am English and when I look at Iraq, to me its no different to Poland 1939, except its oil, not coal. Falluja is no different to Warsaw, and the Concentration Camps, with 14,000 Iraqi's there, reminds me of Austwichz |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by Arch Angel
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
15 Apr 2004
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I assume you mean Auschwitz. I have a hard time comparing our detention camps to concentration camps. The lack of human ovens and unnecessary surgeries and the fact that the POW's are fed and cared for would say that you need to bring it down a notch. I thought the English school systems were better than that. |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by ace
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
15 Apr 2004
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PLEASE PUBLISH, POST, PRINT, PASS AROUND.
INTERNATIONAL PHYSICIANS FOR THE PREVENTION OF NUCLEAR WAR (IPPNW)
CONFERENCE: DIALOGUES WITH DECISION MAKERS
NEW DELHI, INDIA, FEBRUARY 29, MARCH 1-2, 2004
CONFERENCE HOSTED BY THE INDIAN DOCTORS FOR PEACE AND DEVELOPMENT (IDPD)
CONTACT: DR. ARUN MITRA
idpd2001 (at) hotmail.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SILENT WMDs EFFECTS OF DEPLETED URANIUM
By Admiral Vishnu Bhagwat
Former Chief of the Naval Staff, India
FEBRUARY 29, 2004
Heat not a furnace for your foe so hot ..that it do singe yourself.
- William Shakespeare
This brief presentation is aimed at conveying to the primarily Indian participants of the Conference the fateful and disastrous consequences of the indiscriminate use of depleted and non DU munitions on the people of the west, central and south Asian regions, women, children , men , animals, plant and animal life now and in the future, in gross violation of international law, the Hague convention and domestic US military law.
Official Gamma Ray damage caused studies have been deficient in a number of respects..internal contamination, internal dose to individual cells, omissions of diseases other than cancer, mutagenic, long term degeneration , oncogenesis, effects of the killer isotopes in particular. The case studies of the years 1945-50 were ignored. A recent European Parliament Report ECRR 2003 (European Committee on
Radiation Risk ) concludes that A Bomb studies underestimate the radiation risk by more than 1000 times and failed to consider the internal exposure and diseases caused by Alpha and Beta rays. They did not consider the Manhattan Project classified memo that, in case the Project objective of producing Plutonium fission and theA Bomb did not succeed , Depleted Uranium munitions would be deployed towards the attainment of the same objective (encl. 1).
DU weapons emit Alpha particle dose to a single cell from U-238 which is 50 times the annual dose level. Cancer is initiated with one alpha particle, its daughter isotopes effect generations as the isotopes bio-concentrate in plants and animals, and travel up the food chain. It is a nuclear weapon because the energy is derived from the nucleus of the atom. They enter the body through the lungs, the digestive system or breaks in the skin. One gram of DU releases more than 12,000 particles per second. The radiation slowly kills the cells that make life possible. The Gulf War syndrome of 1991 did just that ( reported by Dr Asaf Durakovic, Prof. of Medicine , Georgetown University, and discoverer of the Gulf War Syndrome.)
We are well aware that the radiation fall-out map Under the Cloud: Decades of Nuclear Testing has demonstrated the effects of 1200 nuclear weapon tests conducted at the Nevada Test Site; and the US Government admitted in Nov. 2002, that every living person in the US between 1958-63 was exposed to this fall out resulting in cancer, gene mutation, heart disease, autism, diabetes, Parkinsons, ALS, asthma, chronic fatigue syndrome , hypothyroidism in new-borns, obesity and learning disabilities. One out of twelve children in the US is disabled. The fall out did not stop at the US borders. It travelled around the world, as atmospheric dust and remains even in the biosphere/ sub-orbital space today. High breast cancer rates have been co-located in the proximity of nuclear power plants in the west and more so in the east coast areas of the US (The Breast cancer map from The Enemy Within: the high cost of living near nuclear reactors, quotes US Govt. Disease Control Centers.
The Radiation & Public health Report (RPHP), rendered by a group of independent scientists collected 4000 baby teeth and by measuring Strontium 90 levels in the baby teeth ( a built in dosi-meter ) they have been able to co-relate with radiation related diseases in children living near the nuclear power plants; the main path ways being dairy products and drinking water.
The induction of DU weapons in 1991 in Iraq, the radio-active trash from nuclear plants broke a 46 year taboo. This Trojan Horse of nuclear war, an omnicidal weapon has since then continued to be used more and more. DU remains radioactive longer than the age of the earth ( estimated at 4.5 billion years. )
The long-term effects from over a decade of DU exposures are emerging in Southern Iraq. They are devastating. The increased quantities of radio-active material ( including non-depleted uranium), used in Afghanistan are 3 to 5 times greater than Iraq 199. In Iraq 2003 they are already estimated to be 6 to 10 times 1991 and will travel through a larger area and affect many more people, babies and unborn. Countries within a 1000 mile radius of Baghdad and Kabul are being affected by radiation poisoning , that includes the Capital, New
Delhi, where the ruling elite lives. The reported coming of an AIDS epidemic last year in India , down wind, may have a relationship to DU bombing in Afghanistan. If we think cancer is a problem now wait until more DU is released in wars against terror and for regime change, on mistaken Intelligence reports.
More than 500 tons of DU munitions have been dispensed in Afghanistan. Professor Yagasaki calculated that 800 tons of DU is the atomicity equivalent to 83,000 Nagasaki bombs in a paper presented at the World Uranium Weapons Conference in Hamburg in October 2003 ( 5 months ago ). The amount of DU used in Iraq in 2003 is equivalent to nearly 250,000 Nagasaki bombs ( Busby and Leuren Moret have calculated that 1900 tons of DU is equivalent to 60 TBq of Alfa and Beta particulate activity).
We need not ennumerate the DU munition types used in Iraq 199, Kosovo 1999, Afghanistan 2001-04 and Iraq 2003. They have been dispensed by all air / ground and sea systems on innocent civilians. DU burns intensely and is very hard. It releases Uranium Oxide. The aerosol contains particles of 0.5-5 microns in size, once they are in the air or dust they are inhaled or ingested, including from contaminated soil. Once in the lungs one such particle is equivalent to having one XRay per hour, for life. Because it is impossible to remove, the victim is gradually irradiated. Still births, birth defects, leukemia, damaged central nervous systems and other cancers have been common in children born since 1991. Child leukemia has risen 600 % in areas of Iraq as reported by the Netherland Visie Foundation. Beyond just the health
consequences, DU munitions are in fact, weapons of Silent Mass Destruction in so far as the consequences of their usage are vast, indiscriminate and violate all Human Rights Conventions . Tora Bora , Kabu , Paktia , Karises or underwater supply tunnels have been contaminated forever. All this has been documented in a comprehensive paper Uranium wars : The Pentagon steps up its use of Radio-active Munitions, by Marc W. Herold to whom this paper owes sincere acknowledgement.
In another paper Dr Mohammed Daud Miraki, Director Afghan DU Recovery Fund, quotes George W Bush , we will smoke them out, condemning the unborn, the living and the future generations of Afghans and the neighbouring people to a pre-determined, death sentence. After the destruction of our village, I realised that the Americans had sentenced us all to death. When I saw my deformed
grandson I realised my hopes for the future have vanished This time we are part of the invisible genocide brought on by America a silent death from which we will not escape ( Jooma Khan of Laghman province..March 2003.) Similar stories are repeated from Paktita province of Jelly Babies. Pregnant women are afraid of giving birthThis is the legacy of US ushered liberation, freedom and democracy. DU is cheap for the US, utilising nuclear waste, cheaper than titanium and tungsten, not for the liberated (non-DU is still cheaper as it is the uranium feedstock, pre-enrichment).
The Uranium Medical Research Center (UMRC), Washington DC, and the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists (1991) - Steve Fetter and Frank Von Hippel have reported on extensive research by Field teams of the UMRC in Afghanistan. Testimonies of fathers and mothers are horrifying What else do the Americans want ? They killed us , they turned our new-borns into horrific deformations, and they turned our farm lands into grave-yards, and destroyed our homes. On top of all this their planes fly over and spray us with bullets.. we have nothing to lose ..we
will fight them the same way we fought the previous invaders (Sayed Gharib at Tora Bora).
Radiological dispensing devices or warfare is the latest of the weapons of the new millenium, but it singes even those who use it , as shown in the after effects of the tests at home ground in the US, where evidence of cognitive damage during early infancy have been compiled. For us in Eurasia, Pakistan and India we have a new health epidemic to drain our scarce resources.
As world citizens we need to focus on a new scourge, the reality of the PNAC - Rebuilding Americas Defenses, Strategy, Forces and Resources for a New Century.
The Report notes that , Much has been written in recent years about the need to transform the conventional armed forces of the United States to take advantage of the Revolution in Military Affairs. Our military requires a dramatic transformation , lest we lose our ability to fight the future unconventional wars .. some may be fought in cyberspace, others under water or in outer space . And some even within our bodies.
Paul Wolfowitz, William Kristol and others are some of the men representing contemporary power centers, who define US policy. History indicates that the men who define US military policy from the shadows , are worthy of our attention.
GENETIC BOMBS
When creating genetic-bombs or weapons to target specific groups; genetic profiles are subtler and more accurate than the coarse pseudo category called race. The group with ADHD ( the Edison Gene) uniquely share common inherited variations in their dopamine regulating genes regardless of race, geography or ethnicity. Thus anybody whos part of a group with a shared genetic profile may be at risk in the future.
A virus or bacteria may attack only a particular type of person, killing, disabling or sterilising only those of a particular gene profile.
Threatening a particular type would be sufficient political black-mail.
Wolfowitz, Kristol and their colleagues suggested that the Pentagon should be thinking about not just germ warfare of which they have plenty of capabilities, but gene warfare.
Genetic terra-forming could replace diplomacy, or it could change the face of politics if an organism got loose that killed all the people of a particular minority community who tend to vote for a particular political party.
According to the PNAC, Genetically targeted weapons could change world politics for ever, and the report notes, advanced forms of biological warfare that can target specific geno-types may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool
To conclude 4th generation micro-nukes, with their war-head composition, were deliberated upon and decided at the US Airforce Strategic Command Headquarters at the Offutt Airforce Base, Nebraska, between the top Corporates /weapon manufacturers and the US military brass. The former not only have prior knowledge of numbers and types of all types of nuclear weapons, but the locations of the planned and approved targets, globally.
This meeting took place on Hiroshima Day, 6th August, 2003, and to reiterate, the aim was to define a new generation of nuclear weapons to be used on a pre-emptive basis against rogue enemies and terrorist organisations. (mini-nukes have an explosive capacity between one-third and six times a Hiroshima bomb).
In this Strangelovian logic, nuclear weapons are now viewed as a means to ensuring peace and security against non-existent WMDs.
AT A GLANCE:
1. In the 2003 war, the IraqiS were subjected to the Pentagons radioactive arsenal, mainly in the urban centers, unlike in the deserts in 1991. The aggregate effects of illnesses and long term disabilities and genetic birth defects will be apparent only 2008 onwards.
2. By now, half of all the 697,000 US soldiers involved in the 1991 war have reported serious illnesses. According the American Gulf War Veterans Association, more than 30% of these soldiers are chronically ill, and receiving disability benefits from the Veterans Administration.
3. The number of disabled veterans is shockingly high . They are in their mid-thirties and should have been in the prime of health.
4. Near the Republican Palace where US troops stood guard and over 1000 employees walked in and out, the radiation readings were the hottest in Iraq, at nearly 1900 times background radiation levels.
5. At a roadside stand, selling fresh bunches of parsley, mint, and onions, children played on a burnt out Iraqi tank just outside Baghdad, the Geiger counter registered 1000 times normal background radiation.
6. The Pentagon and the United Nations estimate that the US and Britain used 1,100 to 2,200 tons of armor piercing shells made of DU during attacks in March-April 2003, far more than the 1991 Gulf War (this does not include air dispensed DU munitions and missiles), wrote the Post Intelligencer.
7. An otherwise useless by-product of the uranium enrichment process, DU is attractive to military contractors because it is so cheap and often offered for free by the Government.
8. The long term effects, as Dr Asaf Durakovic elaborates, after the early neurological symptoms are cancer, and related radiation illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome, joint and muscle pain, neurological and/or nerve damage, mood disturbances, auto-immuno deficiciencies, lung and kidney damage, vision problems, skin rupture, increase in miscarriages, maternal mortality and genetic birth defects/deformation.
9. For years the US government described the Gulf War Syndrome as a post traumatic stress disorder. It was labelled as a psychological problem or simply as mysterious unrelated ailments much in the same way as health problems of Vietnam veterans suffering from Agent Orange poisoning.
( With acknowledgements to Sara Flounders, for 1-9 above, Coordinator of the DU education program ).
I also gratefully acknowledge the facts learnt from evidence led by scientists/papers presented and accepted by the International Criminal Tribunal on Afghanistan, at Tokyo on 13-16 Decembe, 2003 and earlier at the World Depleted Uranium Weapons Conference, Hamburg 16-19 October, 2003, by Leuren Moret, whose continuing contribution to this cause against Silent Wepons of Mass Destruction (SWMD), in defense of humanity, deserves our support.
Admiral Vishnu Bhagwat may be contacted at vbhagwat (at) bom7.vsnl.net.in.
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© The Power Hour 2003 |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by Bob Donatelle
bobdonatelle (nospam) yahoo.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
01 May 2004
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Everyone DESPISES a Mercenary.
These mercenaries were specifically targetted by the Iraqi Resistance for the very reason that they were Mercenaries.
The US also uses these Mercenaries to get information out of Iraqi prisoners using methods that the US Army does not want to be publically connected with. :-(
...and THAT is probably why these mercenaries were treated so brutally---the word had probably gotten back to the Iraq Resistance regarding what these mercenaries had done to Iraqi citizens.
EVERYONE DESPISES a MERCENARY !!! |
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Hmmmm |
by a reader
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
02 May 2004
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http://www.ucimc.org/newswire/display/17262/index.php
Perhaps this incident is only the beginning of the backlash. As you will see in this article, an investigation has been going on for some months. Guess the word is out in Iraq on the tactics of MI, soldiers, and civilian contractors. Tit for tat isn't right, but unfortunately outrage isn't always reasonable. |
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Re: Four "civilians" killed in Iraq were US mercenaries. |
by peter
securitypartner5 (nospam) hotmail.com (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
10 Sep 2005
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these men chose to do the job |
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