|
Comment on this article |
View comments |
Email this Feature
|
|
Announcement :: Civil & Human Rights |
|
Vigil For Quentin Larry and Terrell Layfield - Saturday, July 22, 8 PM |
Current rating: 0 |
by Brian Dolinar
Email: briandolinar (nospam) gmail.com (unverified!) |
16 Jul 2006
|
On Saturday, July 22 at 8 p.m. a vigil will be held for Quentin Larry, Terrell Layfield, and others who have died while in police custody at the Champaign County jail. Bring a candle and meet us at 204 E. Main, downtown Urbana, in front of the Champaign County Sheriff's office.
This vigil is first to honor the individuals and their families. Secondly, it is a call for an independent investigation into the five deaths that have occurred within the past two years. We plan to go to the Champaign County Board with the demand that an independent investigation be conducted into all five deaths. |
Public concern arose in 2004 when three suicides occurred within six months. IMC reporters made contact with Twymenia Layfield, the wife of Terrell Layfield, the last of the three alleged suicides. It was through conversations with Mrs. Layfield that they found out about the restrictive and arbitrary visitation rules, as well as the high cost of phone calls from the Champaign County jail. After these were exposed, Sheriff Walsh allowed for more than the cut off number of fifty visitations. Sandra Ahten and Champaign-Urbana Citizens for Peace and Justice successfully rallied to get the County Board to renegotiate a contract awarding $14,000 a month kickback to a phone company.
IMC reporters accompanied Mrs. Layfield to the coroner's inquest and all left feeling they had not been given a full explanation of Terell's death. The public hearing involved Urbana officer Mike Metzler giving an account of the alleged suicide. No evidence was presented, no photographs, no bed sheet claimed he used. No witnesses testified, not the officer who found the body. The matter was quickly settled in under ten minutes.
This coroner's inquest was the culmination of an investigation that was far from independent. The Urbana police force was assigned to investigate the Champaign County jail. In a small town such as Urbana-Champaign, the authorities are a small circle of friends who know one another on a first name basis and have lunch together.
From the beginning, the Sheriff could not start his investigation until the Champaign County State's Attorney determined that no criminal charges were to be filed. If the Sheriff was to be sued, State's Attorney Julia Reitz would be his lawyer. In this scenario, as Sandra Ahten writes, “the State's Attorney would be both prosecution and defense” (ucimc.org 2/11/2005).
An independent investigation into the five deaths is the final piece in the puzzle to find out what is going on in the Champaign County jail. The repeated incidents suggest that these deaths are not “accidental” but systemic and procedural. In the words of Mrs. Layfield, “In my opinion, suicides are not only the fault of the jail system, but also the justice system.”
To police officers, jail guards, lawyers, and judges, inmates are not people who have loved ones, wives, and children. Terrell Layfield was charged with cocaine possession. He took it to trial and was found innocent. Yet he was found guilty on the trivial charge of obstruction of justice for lying to the police about his name. The heavy sentence of more than five years given by Judge Heidi Ladd should be seen as retribution for his beating the drug charges and lying to an officer. Layfield was obviously distraught about the long sentence. When he was denied a routine phone call to his wife, he became upset and began to make noise in his cell. He was not responded to for several hours. Committing suicide was his final act of protest against an unfair justice system.
According to the Department of Justice, drug offenders were found to have the lowest suicide and homicide rates of all inmates. Terrell Layfield was not suicidal before he entered the Champaign County jail. The inhumane condition in our jails and prisons do not correct, but only create more death and destruction. Those who administer justice become jaded and themselves become dehumanized. In the courtroom, Judge Heidi Ladd said Layfield received several years because he was “living like a bum.”
On the ucimc.org web site, Mrs. Layfield responded to these comments saying Terrell was also a father, husband, friend, and son. She blamed the authorities who failed to take the first suicides seriously, “What did they change to prevent this from happening again to me – it seems nothing!” Her words were prophetic. While steps have been taken by Sheriff Walsh, not enough has been done to prevent two more deaths in the jail. How many more before we have a restoration of the public trust?
The individuals and their families are the real victims in this country's War on Drugs. Quentin Larry, who died of a heart attack the Sheriff is calling drug-related, is the latest victim. Larry died over Memorial Day weekend and his case is still under investigation. The City of Champaign police have been assigned to investigate this incident, another inside job.
The families of Quentin Larry and Terrell Layfield are supporting this vigil and asking for a full explanation of the death of their loved ones. Join us on July 22 at 8 p.m. in front of the Sheriff's office, 204 E. Main Street, downtown Urbana.
This vigil is being sponsored by the Urban League of Champaign County, Champaign Urbana Citizens for Peace and Justice, Visionaries Educating Youth and Adults (VEYA), and Anti-War, Anti-Racism Effort (AWARE). For more information see the June issue of the Public i.
Join us for the IMC Capital Campaign Kickoff afterwards at the Independent Media Center, Broadway and Elm in the old Urbana post office. |
This work is in the public domain. |
Comments
|
Photo of Quentin Larry |
by Darrin
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
17 Jul 2006
|
 |
|
... |
|
Re: Vigil For Quentin Larry and Terrell Layfield - Saturday, July 22, 8 PM |
by BD
BD (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
20 Jul 2006
|
On Memorial Day weekend, Quentin Larry, age 36, died of what is being called a heart attack. Early reports were that the death was drug-related. Records say he was found with a bag of powder cocaine in his mouth. But he apparently did not choke on the bag – the coroner says this 36 year-old man had a heart attack. Did Quentin Larry die of a drug overdose? If so, how did he get drugs into the jail?
Sheriff Dan Walsh has not fully explained to the Larry family what happened and has failed to return phone calls. A coroner's inquest is scheduled for August 24.
The death of Quentin Larry makes 5 deaths in the Champaign County jail over the last 2 years.
We are calling for an independent investigation into the death of Quentin Larry and the others who have died in the county jail. Currently, the Champaign city police are investigating the Champaign County Sheriff's office. An independent investigation is not an unreasonable request. When an affluent couple from southwest Champaign were recently found murdered, the bodies were sent to a special coroner in Bloomington, a $25,000 reward was announced, and the entire police force was called on to solve these crimes. This sends the message that the lives of poor Black and white men (4 were Black, 1 was white) are not worth as much as others.
Police have complete responsibility for an individual who is in their custody. A rogue officer has been exposed in the County jail who was tasing several individuals. A recent news report has revealed that Black inmates were systematically tortured in the Chicago jails.
What is going on in the Champaign County jail???
The public and the families deserve an explanation.
RIP Quentin
BD |
|
Re: Vigil For Quentin Larry and Terrell Layfield - Saturday, July 22, 8 PM |
by GreenGuy
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
21 Jul 2006
|
So it's not possible that inmates and visitors smuggle drugs into jails and manage to get by the searches performed by guards?
It's not possible that a heart attack was brought on by a cocaine overdose from a broken bag of coke seeping into the bloodstream through the skin in the mouth?
I'm not suggesting either that there was or was not guard complicity in the death, just that the scope of possibilities does extend beyond your insinuations and accusations. |
|
Re: Vigil For Quentin Larry and Terrell Layfield - Saturday, July 22, 8 PM |
by BD
BD (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
21 Jul 2006
|
Problem is we have no explanation from any public officials. Sure, Larry could have smuggled drugs into the jail. But what is the protocol for checking in inmates and how did this break down?
Why would someone swallow drugs?
Why not flush it down the toilet?
Why not take in small doses for desired effect?
Were they bad drugs?
Larry was not picked up for drugs remember,
but for trespassing and theft.
BD |
|
Re: Vigil For Quentin Larry and Terrell Layfield - Saturday, July 22, 8 PM |
by GreenGuy
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
21 Jul 2006
|
"what is the protocol for checking in inmates and how did this break down?"
He didn't have to be the one to smuggle it in. The protocol for searches of any type can be the best in the world, but that doesn't mean it's 100% perfect all of the time. The responsibility for botched drug smuggling ultimately lies with the person doing the smuggling, not the guards. The guards have a responsibility to reasonably safeguard the inmates, but if inmates are thwarting the safety controls that are in place to CHECK for contraband by constantly changing tactics, not everything will always be caught. Hence, drugs still get into jails, and inmates not only get drugs from the outside, but deal them between each other.
"Why would someone swallow drugs?"
I suggested that it was unintentional due to a broken bag.
"Why not flush it down the toilet?"
Why would you flush your stash, unless you were about to be searched? What if you had no chance to flush it before a search? Somewhere on your person might be your only option.
"Why not take in small doses for desired effect?"
If it was in a baggie in his mouth, I seriously doubt he was trying to get high at the time.
"Were they bad drugs?"
Are you kidding? It's coke.
"Larry was not picked up for drugs remember,
but for trespassing and theft."
Just because he was wasn't busted for drugs doesn't mean he wasn't a drug user. For that matter, due to the circumstances of his death, he may not have even been a drug user, but a dealer or runner. |
|
Re: Vigil For Quentin Larry and Terrell Layfield - Saturday, July 22, 8 PM |
by BD
BD (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
21 Jul 2006
|
Nobody deserves to die because they are peddling white stuff. Nobody deserves to die because they are drug addicts.
The authorities have not even released how much drugs Larry was caught with. Larry was working at the McDonald's in the U of I union. Maybe even served you your french fries. I don't think he's a big baller, a drug pusher.
I do know he has a 14 year old son who's torn up about losing his father.
BD |
|
Re: Vigil For Quentin Larry and Terrell Layfield - Saturday, July 22, 8 PM |
by GreenGuy
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
21 Jul 2006
|
The most likely scenario here is that he died of a heart attack due to unintentional cocaine overdose from a stash that was in his mouth that he shouldn't have had in the first place.
At what point here is he NOT responsible for his own death? |
|
Re: Vigil For Quentin Larry and Terrell Layfield - Saturday, July 22, 8 PM |
by GreenGuy
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
21 Jul 2006
|
"Just because he was wasn't busted for drugs doesn't mean he wasn't a drug user. For that matter, due to the circumstances of his death, he may not have even been a drug user, but a dealer or runner."
"The authorities have not even released how much drugs Larry was caught with. Larry was working at the McDonald's in the U of I union. Maybe even served you your french fries. I don't think he's a big baller, a drug pusher."
No, he wasn't working at McDonalds, he was in jail. It's entirely possible that he was a mule in the lock-up, even if he never touched the stuff on the outside. I don't mean to say that he had a huge change of personality, but that it's possible he was doing a favor for someone else in return for something. It could have been his first contact with coke, for all we know, but he still wasn't supposed to have it in his possesion. |
|
Re: Vigil For Quentin Larry and Terrell Layfield - Saturday, July 22, 8 PM |
by Aaron Ammons
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
21 Jul 2006
|
|
The man is dead, are you coming to the vigil? There are lots of possible scenarios that we can discuss later if you ever show your face but for now we just want to show our support for the families and show our concern |
|
Re: Vigil For Quentin Larry and Terrell Layfield - Saturday, July 22, 8 PM |
by GreenGuy
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
21 Jul 2006
|
Why would I come to a vigil for someone I don't know and with whom I have nothing in common?
I feel bad for those he left behind, but there's nothing that can be done to change the fact that he's dead.
For me to show up to the vigil would be an admission on my part that I agree with Dolinar's position, and I don't.
...and by the way, that's the second time in two strings that someone has insinuated that I'm somehow a "coward" for using a screen name instead of my real name.
So I'll say it again - I USED to post with my real name, but my job requires me to be the public face of my organization, so I don't want my personal opinions in any way associated with what I say professionally.
Beyond that, there's plenty of folks who post on UCIMC (ML, 5, dose of reality) who defend the IMC position at all costs who post anonymously - those who disagree should be entitled to the same benefit, for any reason, or even no reason at all.
My decision to use or not use a screen name should have zero bearing on my arguments, as long as my arguments are sound. If you feel the need to attack me for using a screen name, that gives me the impression that you lack the ability or drive to counter my actual arguments. |
|
Re: Vigil For Quentin Larry and Terrell Layfield - Saturday, July 22, 8 PM |
by BD
BD (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
21 Jul 2006
|
According to Quentin Larry's father, his son was in perfect health before he went into the jail. No previous visits to the doctor, no heart palpitations, no nothing.
William D. Marshall who died in 2005 in the county jail died of a heart attack at the young age of 31.
It is well documented that African American men have higher rates of heart disease than white men. This has been called another side-effect of living in racist America. But these men dying 30 years before their life expectancy - its a damn shame.
Almost two months have passed and the family still has no explanation.
BD |
|
Re: Vigil For Quentin Larry and Terrell Layfield - Saturday, July 22, 8 PM |
by GreenGuy
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
21 Jul 2006
|
And one of the rather unfortunate side-effects of coke in the bloodstream - intentional or not - is extreme stress on the heart. That's not really something that requires a pre-existing condition.
Combine that with the stress of being in jail, the stress of having your life turned upside down, and the stress of knowing what it's doing to your family, and you've got a real recipe for a heart attack. |
|
Re: Vigil For Quentin Larry and Terrell Layfield - Saturday, July 22, 8 PM |
by GreenGuy
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
21 Jul 2006
|
"It is well documented that African American men have higher rates of heart disease than white men. This has been called another side-effect of living in racist America."
So it's not possible that people are physiologically different by race? We know it's true by gender (body mass, proclivity for bone disease, male-pattern baldness, etc). We know that it's true in dogs (pugs and bulldogs have breathing problems, danes have hip issues).
We even know that OTHER issues tend to be race-specific (people of east asian descent tend to have much more often and much more pronounced allergic physiological reactions to alcohol than other races).
Why must it be racist that heart disease rates are greater in one race over another? |
|
Re: Vigil For Quentin Larry and Terrell Layfield - Saturday, July 22, 8 PM |
by Altazor
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
21 Jul 2006
|
Wow Greenguy--
Ok, you're right the american poltical/judicial/and economic system is not biased at all in favor of the rich, white, and powerful. It's perfect as it is and cannot be improved.
You obviously not only have an amazing amount of free time on your hands... but a very impressive hoard of excuses, obfuscations, and arguments for 'plausible denial' to defend the system with!! If you aren't playing devil's advocate, and just having some fun, then I'm wondering if this IS your day job (if you know what I mean.) You're starting to sound entirely too 'professional' and calculated.
Hmm... provocative. (sp?) |
|
Re: Vigil For Quentin Larry and Terrell Layfield - Saturday, July 22, 8 PM |
by GreenGuy
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
22 Jul 2006
|
"Ok, you're right the american poltical/judicial/and economic system is not biased at all in favor of the rich, white, and powerful. It's perfect as it is and cannot be improved."
Sarcasm and false choices will get you nowhere.
I'm only suggesting - as I always have - that there are alternatives to the claim that institutional racism is the sole and/or primary cause of all evil in the US. I don't suggest that racism doesn't exist and isn't a problem.
"If you aren't playing devil's advocate, and just having some fun, then I'm wondering if this IS your day job (if you know what I mean.) You're starting to sound entirely too 'professional' and calculated."
Yeeeeaaahhhh...thank you?...I guess?
Out for the weekend! See ya monday! |
|
Re: Vigil For Quentin Larry and Terrell Layfield - Saturday, July 22, 8 PM |
by BD
BD (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
22 Jul 2006
|
The family not even received a death certificate.
Who stands for govt transparency and responsibility.
Who advocates for the devil?
BD |
|
Re: Vigil For Quentin Larry and Terrell Layfield - Saturday, July 22, 8 PM |
by Aaron Ammons
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
23 Jul 2006
|
|
whom you don't know and have nothing in common? How would you know that the two of you had nothing in common? It's a concern for us if in 2006 we can say that we have nothing in common with other human beings, that we have never even met. In the civil rights movement and many others, people had to sacrifice the perceptions of their peers and even their jobs and lives so the Truth could live.=, we need the same from you. you arguments mr green are elementary but I appreciate you taking the time to express your opinions. I do find that you are somewhat versed in protocaol of some sort but your compassion and faith are questionable in a world where material things never last! Be Just! |
|
Re: Vigil For Quentin Larry and Terrell Layfield - Saturday, July 22, 8 PM |
by AA
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
23 Jul 2006
|
|
The vigil was a beautiful sight. Caring people from all walks of life gathering together for a moment of healing. The outpouring of love and compassion is what really drives true revolutionaries and it was a pleasure to be with all of you who were able to make it last night. I look forward to the days and nights to come woth you all as the soldiers next to me. Those who transitioned over the past two years while in the Sheriff's custody shal;l not die in vain. Be Just! |
|
Re: Vigil For Quentin Larry and Terrell Layfield - Saturday, July 22, 8 PM |
by GreenGuy
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
24 Jul 2006
|
"you arguments mr green are elementary"
I agree. So why aren't my questions being answered with legitimate responses? I've only been asking questions directly related to suppositions posted on this board - all I ask is for plain logic and straitforward evidence to back up the claims.
"secrecy is no help when it comes to calming the public's mind as to whether he was killed by racist guards or died of natural causes."
Why would those be the 2 choices? Do you have some legitimate reason to believe that guards are systematically murdering people in prison and covering it up?
Why is it suddenly up to the guards to prove that they AREN'T murdering people? Are guards somehow immune from the "innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" bit?
"Without a good, and public investigation, with objective, scientific evidence, we are left debating your theories against other theories."
At what point do finally say that 2 + 2 does indeed = 4? A thorough investagation would certainly be nice in every instance of death, ever, but it doesn't seem like a wise use of time, money, resources and manpower. The facts, as we know them, point to one reasonable conclusion: fatal heart attack due to inadvertent consumption of an overdose of an illicit chemical known to cause extreme cardiac stress.
"Ultimately, the real issue for me is: we have this institution called the Champaign County Correctional Center. I assume Correctional means correcting dysfunctional behavior, whether it be drug abuse, violent behavior, or habitual stealing. If this is the case, the jail is an institution to correct behavior- then why are people dying so frequently in a place that is supposed to help people?"
Please don't tell me you're arguing semantics of a name. Please don't make me spell out the multiple, intertwined reasons for having a department of corrections.
"whom you don't know and have nothing in common? How would you know that the two of you had nothing in common?"
I have neither the time nor desire to find out whether or not I have anything in common with him. I'm sure he was a very nice man. However, nothing about this situation gives me the compelling urge to become his post-mortem buddy. |
|
Re: Vigil For Quentin Larry and Terrell Layfield - Saturday, July 22, 8 PM |
by BD
BD (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
24 Jul 2006
|
We do have evidence that guards are torturing inmates.
Sgt. William Alan Myers was caught tasing an inmate. He is back in court Aug 25. He's expected to enter a plea bargain. We'll see what kind of punishment he gets.
Investigation found that Myers has tased several other individuals. One of them was a pregnant woman. Another one was a man who says Myers grabbed him by the hair and smashed his head against a wall.
Myers tortured at least 4 people before he was caught. Another reason for county-wide police review boards.
For more on Myers see case file 05CF02105.
This will have to do for now.
The Sheriff has released no evidence of how Quentin Larry died. There is no case file, no police report, no investigation report, no nada.
Only the Sheriff can answer our questions.
BD |
|
Re: Vigil For Quentin Larry and Terrell Layfield - Saturday, July 22, 8 PM |
by GreenGuy
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
24 Jul 2006
|
A tazer is an effective less-than-lethal tool against unruly individuals who pose a risk to guards and police, the use of which does not constitute torture in and of itself. I don't claim that no one has died by being tazed, only that the usual results of being tazed are far less lethal than the usual results of being shot.
The medical documentation against tazing is so strong that Carle Hospital - a place that should know a thing or two about medical issues - employs security guards that have Tazers instead of firearms.
Regardless, "death by sticking cocaine in the mouth" isn't nearly the same as one individual being under investigation being over-zealous with the use of a less-than-lethal control tool, or by beating someone's head against a wall.
Myers is one out-of-control individual, according to you, and this doesn't sound like Myers's M.O. to use subtlety in his tactics. |
|
Re: Vigil For Quentin Larry and Terrell Layfield - Saturday, July 22, 8 PM |
by GreenGuy
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
24 Jul 2006
|
I would still like an answer to this question:
"Why is it suddenly up to the guards to prove that they AREN'T murdering people? Are guards somehow immune from the "innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" bit?" |
|
Re: Vigil For Quentin Larry and Terrell Layfield - Saturday, July 22, 8 PM |
by HUH?
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
24 Jul 2006
|
For more on Myers see case file 05CF02105.
This will have to do for now.
The Sheriff has released no evidence of how Quentin Larry died. There is no case file, no police report, no investigation report, no nada.
Only the Sheriff can answer our questions.
BD
You stated in your post there was no case file, no police report and no investigation. If that is the case, what is the case number you posted based upon? This case is now in the judicial system so obviously there was a report and an investigation. Just because you have not seen it does not mean it does not exist. Do you really think a case could go to trial without these? WOW……..Your thinking scares me. Or, are you just trying to lead some sheep? |
|
Re: Vigil For Quentin Larry and Terrell Layfield - Saturday, July 22, 8 PM |
by GreenGuy
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
24 Jul 2006
|
I don't think the Myers case number that BD listed is directly related to the Larry issue.
BD was trying to point out there is a record of police brutality in general at the jail; he was not suggesting that there is any specific record at all regarding Larry's death. |
|
Re: Vigil For Quentin Larry and Terrell Layfield - Saturday, July 22, 8 PM |
by HUH?
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
24 Jul 2006
|
|
My mistake; however, if he believes there was no police report or investigation on any death that occurs at the jail, he is ignorant of procedures and should not be so outspoken as to show everyone the ignorance. Unless as earlier stated, he is trying to lead the sheep. |
|
Re: Vigil For Quentin Larry and Terrell Layfield - Saturday, July 22, 8 PM |
by Not So Anonymous
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
24 Jul 2006
|
Very interesting. The guards are presumed to be guilty, that there is a coverup, and Patrick Thompson is presumed to be innocent, with a whitewash failure to have enough evidence.
I see very serious racism at work. Too bad it is by UCIMC commenters here. |
|
Re: Vigil For Quentin Larry and Terrell Layfield - Saturday, July 22, 8 PM |
by BD
BD (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
24 Jul 2006
|
Perhaps you can provide a case number for any reports on Q. Larry's death?
It would be much appreciated.
BD |
|
Re: Vigil For Quentin Larry and Terrell Layfield - Saturday, July 22, 8 PM |
by smiley
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
25 Jul 2006
|
|
Unlike CSI, local investigations take time, lab results can take weeks and reports have to be tabulated and filed. While Quentin's passing is the death in question on this forum there have been others including a double homicide all of which are added to the never ending pile. When everything is done a coroner's inquest will be held ( a permanent death certificate cannot be issued until then, however the family may have a partially filled out "temporary"), reports will be available to family and the rumors will be put to rest. Take a chill pill BD. |
|
Re: Vigil For Quentin Larry and Terrell Layfield - Saturday, July 22, 8 PM |
by BD
BD (unverified) |
Current rating: 0
26 Jul 2006
|
I'd like to just take a chill pill, sit back and relax.
But the Larry family should not be expected to wait 3 months before getting any straight answers.
For more information see the 8th Amendment:
"Excessive bail shall not be required, more excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."
BD |
|
Re: Vigil For Quentin Larry and Terrell Layfield - Saturday, July 22, 8 PM |
by GreenGuy
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
26 Jul 2006
|
"Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."
From FindLaw: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment08/09.html#1
"Limitation of the Clause to Criminal Punishments .--The Eighth Amendment deals only with criminal punishment, and has no application to civil processes. In holding the Amendment inapplicable to the infliction of corporal punishment upon schoolchildren for disciplinary purposes, the Court explained that the cruel and unusual punishments clause ''circumscribes the criminal process in three ways: First, it limits the kinds of punishment that can be imposed on those convicted of crimes; second, it proscribes punishment grossly disproportionate to the severity of the crime; and third, it imposes substantive limits on what can be made criminal and punished as such.'' 182 These limitations, the Court thought, should not be extended outside the criminal process."
i.e., the 8th only applies to the convict, not the family.
There is still no valid reason to believe that Larry suffered "cruel and unusual" punishment, as there is nothing to substantiate that this his death was due to action or neglect on the part of guards acting as representatives of the state. |
|
Re: Vigil For Quentin Larry and Terrell Layfield - Saturday, July 22, 8 PM |
by Aaron Ammons
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
31 Jul 2006
|
|
Interesting dialogue. Sounds so "professional". A good point is raised when one of asks how is it that Patrick is presumed innocent and the guards are presumed guilty. I submit that if that is the feeling that you get then I or someone else has made a mistake and we are more than willing to make amends. However, it is evident that though you made such a keen observation on that point, you seem to refuse to deal in depth with officer Hjort and the fact that he was never even arrested to possibly face the music that everyone else seems to have to dance to. What ism does that reveal? |
|
Re: Vigil For Quentin Larry and Terrell Layfield - Saturday, July 22, 8 PM |
by Aaron Ammons
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
31 Jul 2006
|
|
No time or money to investigate properly? A waste of resources because it looks like a simple case? This is waht i mean about seeing people as cargo! Peole are dead and you want to keep teh image in tact. You must work for them! What about taking a man to trial twice, incarcerating him for four months, and ulitmately being sued for millions of dollares because of negligence and poor police work? If the issue is money then we shoud be adamant about doing things right to avoid lawsuits and erosion of public trust.. sor y I have to go but I'll be back! |
|
Re: Vigil For Quentin Larry and Terrell Layfield - Saturday, July 22, 8 PM |
by GreenGuy
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
01 Aug 2006
|
From my post that I assume you are referring:
"At what point do finally say that 2 + 2 does indeed = 4? A thorough investagation would certainly be nice in every instance of death, ever, but it doesn't seem like a wise use of time, money, resources and manpower. The facts, as we know them, point to one reasonable conclusion: fatal heart attack due to inadvertent consumption of an overdose of an illicit chemical known to cause extreme cardiac stress."
So the answer is that every time someone raises a question about a death, no matter how unlikely or absurd, the government should spend the money on a full-blown investigation to see if a crime was even committed?
I don't see that as reasonable.
...and I haven't commented on the Hjort issue because that is a separate issue and not related to this string. Ths is about the Larry issue, not either rape case.
If you'd like a comment about it, then here you go: you're trying to play slight of hand to get off of the Larry subject with a case that bears a superficial resemblance (read: its a rape case where race is involved) to the Thompson case.
Why don't you judge each case on its own merits, and not try to boil one down to be congruent with another - reality, and law don't work that neatly.
...and were you drunk or something when you wrote your last post? It was really hard to read through the sheer number of typos and lack of a train of thought. |
|
Re: Vigil For Quentin Larry and Terrell Layfield - Saturday, July 22, 8 PM |
by Aaron Ammons
(No verified email address) |
Current rating: 0
03 Aug 2006
|
|
I agree we shouldn't mix issues. Soby this being the Larry thread let me say that an investigation is always needed. The question is why does it always come from the friends of those being investigated i,e. Urbana investigating the county or champaign investigating the county? Are you suggesting that those are fair and impartial "outside" investigations? Does it cost money for them to investigate? How do you know what the substance is and we haven't even had the coroners inquest yet? maybe you are in a loop that affords you such info....as for you insults, well, I thought yu had more sense than that... |
|
